Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Interesting article from the New York Times, if the link doesn’t work (subscribers) you can read it from twitter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html?smid=url-share

More evidence that Israel has no interest in peace.

Israel is a genocidal rogue state.

It was very sad to see the Israeli who helped at the bus stop get executed by the IDF

There is a strong suspicion that some journalists have been deliberately assassinated by the regime : the death toll of journalists has surely been way too high to be accidental (perhaps Israel attempting to control the media narrative in the region). By contrast, only ten journalists or photographers have been killed in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict in nearly two years of war.

Yet hamas are the ones who broke the ceasefire early by firing rockets into Israel arent they? If they wanted peace they could have just not done that? But they don't want peace, they say they don't. They said "the carnage in Gaza is needed". But yeah, it's all Israels fault 🙄

Easy to agree to things you know have no chance of happening

I'd say the families of the various people shot and killed by IDF soldiers during the ceasefire would beg to differ, wouldn't you? Some of these included children under the age of ten, and a boy outside an Israeli detention center having gone there to welcome a family member who was being released as part of the hostage swaps.

Or would you not think that the taking of 160 Palestinians by Israel during the ceasefire would have constituted breaking it no?

Once again both sides violated the truce.

Also Bibi was just as keen as Hamas to continue the war. Regev indirectly admitted it in an interview, and Bibi himself has stated it publicly that the war would start again in order to try and complete his goal. I get you are pro Israeli but let's not distort the facts of the situation because it suits your position.

Former ICC Chief prosecutor

The act of shooting civilians by IDF soldiers in Gaza absolutely violated the terms of the ceasefire. Or if you think not, you should ask why would such a term not have been included. Who would have rejected it.

Ceasefire negotiators offered solution options to both sides in the early days of the war. Hamas accepted 3 of the options, Israel accepted none.

You're pushing a narrative that Hamas is the sole opposition to peace when Israel time and time again has rejected choosing that option and is responsible for the vast amount of deaths in the conflict. For the gazillionth time, I'm not saying Hamas are innocent, but they are at this point most influential in being used by Israel to justify the killing of what is now eight thousand children in less than 8 weeks. Eight thousand!!!

We've now seen in our own lifetimes how what happened in Nazi Germany happened. Millions of people who buy in to the narrative pushed by the oppressor to justify the oppression and butchering of an entire group of people. Each of us only know ourselves exactly our own position on this matter, and the justification for it. But as billions of people judged Nazi's and the people of Germany for the actions of the Nazi party during WW2, so too are billions of people judging those tacitly or outwardly encouraging Israel to do what it is doing. And that includes everyone from Israeli media, to Israeli's who are having watch parties cheering on the bombs hitting Gaza, to Piers Morgan, to EU and UK politicians, to Joe Biden and the rest of the craven political group in the US who has allowed itself to be co-opted by AIPAC and the likes.

A well known Jewish lawyer in the UK makes the interesting point today that the British right wing press (Andrew Neil etc) claiming that the interests of Jewish people and Israel are the exact same thing and that anyone who criticises Israel is therefore anti-Semitic, is actually extremely dangerous stuff. It means thus that all Jewish people can be directly linked to the numerous war crimes of the regime and held responsible for them - leaving them wide open in fact to anti-Semitic attacks and criticism, rather than protecting them from it.

He points out too that many of these right wing British rags are traditionally no friends of Jewish people and are merely being highly opportunistic.

The Palestine protestors in Dublin today are shouting "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free"

Now that we know that this basically means: 'kill the Jews', I wonder how so many in Ireland have become so radicalised to such hatred. No good will come of this.

Nope. You just ignored all the points previously put to you and repeated his fallacy.

This is what I wrote:

I might share in interest in seeing X achieved, that doesn't mean if someone commits a crime to achieve it I am 'directly linked' to the crime. I have no hand or part in the crime. I might want to see X achieved but not by the same means.

Where is the connection between the IF... interests and THEN responsible. There isn't one. It isn't there. It isn't explained. There is zero foundation to the claim, it is incoherent.

It is argument by assertion, attempting a con job.

It doesn't exist. That lawyer can state it but with absolutely zero attempt to justify it, it is self discrediting.

You criticise Russia for bombing and invading Ukraine.

are there any parallels in relation to Israel bombing Gaza? Yes I hate Hamas. What I don’t condone at all is the demolition of homes, as evidenced this morning on TV. Israel can claim that they are “targeting” Hamas, but I don’t think the killing is civilians back this up.

what is Israel end game?

Nope again.

Where is that admitted by me?

Find me that post.

Because otherwise it comes across as a prejudicial misreprsentation.

Therefore I am doubtful in what you claim is said by others in the media as accurate. I suspect it to be a lot more nuanced than that.

For sure some criticism of Israel is motivated by anti semitism. Some criticism of Isrsel is motivated by a different sort of anti Western hate eg the PBP types and Daly Wallace etc. That doesnt mean all criticism is but the above are significant factors.