How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
You won't hear anything until either there is a breakdown in talks or there is something concrete on offer that can be put to the various union committees.
Are the pay talks continuing today? Any indication of how they went yesterday?
Considering they effect ~350,000 people it's kept fairly quiet.
Buy gold?
I suppose I should switch from bread to cake while I'm at it? ffs
You're just taking an opportunity in an irrelevant thread to peddle a hobby horse / ideology. It might as well be bitcoin, like gold it's only worth what the next fool is willing to pay you for it.
It's against sidewide rules to offer potentially dangerous medical advice, maybe the same should be the case for potentially dangerous financial advice...
Lidl adopted a minimum wage of €13.85 per hour for all workers last March, in accordance with the Living Wage recommendation for 2023 and that is increasing to €14.80 per hour from March 2024 as recommended for 2024.
So come March 2024, a CO will have to reach the fourth point of the CO scale to earn the same as someone starting in Lidl.
Hopefully the Unions are at least aiming to push for the Gov to at least match that for a starting CO. And some of the other incentives offered by Lidl to their employees, would be nice too.
you can in fairness , but it’s not guaranteed growth like public and civil service. There is so few on the dole at this stage I don’t see it as much of an issue, a highly emotive one for some people but it isn’t a real issue facing this country. I mean it’s a tough one to say because of what’s happened with housing but with regard to cars, holidays etc yeah we were way more well off than 30 years ago
You can grow in retail.... managers in lidl are on 70k plus ( not everyone is manager material i know)..... as for the dole... it is a choice to be on the dole for a lot of people ... to many incentives being offered to get out of it.
Inflation will dictate wages being doubled over ones career... doesn't mean you got extra in your pocket at the end of the month.... just compare wages now with 30 years ago and are we better of now per se ?
The thread tends to be fixated on starter salaries in these roles vs the dole or retail positions. People arent stupid , they understand what a STARTING salary is. They know their salary is basically guaranteed to double or even treble during their career. The same cannot be said for retail or the Dole. So its disingenous crap to be harping on about starting salaries and pointless to benchmark them against jobs that dont have the same salary growth.
This is going back 10 years ago so as far as I remember they all had to spend years doing a placement after graduation aswell? For a lower rate that was quite low.Off my head 3 of them were working in a local spar and never had a minute to actually live in there early 20s.
That could also be a deciding factor for then to leave they seen the fun sun and good salary our competitors offer, along with fully functioning services that they now contribute to.
where did I denigrate hardworking retail workers ? ... really
I made the comparison between two vastly different sectors and the training (investment) needed to start working in said environment.
And yes there is much less needed to start working at lidl then to start a shift in a busy A&E as a new grad.. with one making 75 euro more per week Sorry if this comparison hurt your feelings.
In the end it needs to be worthwhile to go out there and earn a decent wage that not will be gone after paying rent and buying a few groceries.
I agree, the CS won't let people go. However, I don't think it is that far off now and should be a consideration sooner then later whether the existing grade structure/pay will work going forward. I think as more Departments/senior managers see the benefits of a robot over a human, the cost comparison and how relatively straightforward it is to operate once you get off the initial planning period/early implementation phase, it should be more widely considered for existing work.
There may be an awkward period when this happens, as re-assigning staff who have worked for x amount of years on y and don't have readily transferable skills can be difficult to find appropriate new work for.
On the other end of the scale, I think we can lack numbers in policy areas in comparison to EU counterparts of a similar size. It can be as small as one/two staff working on the national policy for something important.
Our place has experimented with robotic processes also for highly manual and laborious work. I imagine nobody will lose their job but future recruitment may be scaled back as the technology becomes more mainstream.
But the same can be said for a lot professions. The majority still stay here. Or go and return https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-nurses-midwives-emigration-figures-6216732-Nov2023/. Young graduates will always emigrate for different experiences , Ireland is small and the australia thing has nearly become a rite of passage, across any and every employment sector.
Some reports (it's been a few years, I'd have to Google it) omparing pay with the private sector found low grades in the PS/CS do very well by comparison. On the otherhand it found senior managers are less well remunerated.
An obvious fear of a non homogeneous agreement is the AHCPS would make that case strongly.
Surely thats how they end up on the other side of the world? They do do their research and see what salary they can earn
Also, I am only googling it which has a lidl sales associate on 25k, where are you seeing 30k plus?
Obviously 25k would be alot less than the 34k (and less again when shift allowances etc are included).
It's very mean to try denigrate hard working retail workers through comparison though.
Seems like this emergency legislation is holding it up , gov want multi year deal but unions wont unless that legislation is gotten rid of. Feels like the large majority would benefit from a 1 year deal.
Really if that your opinion I don't know what I can do for you.
Plenty of the big 4 hire grads at under 30k straight out of college.
34k plus whatever thousands the shift and other allowances (you'd essentially get as part of your working week as) is pretty decent. I think it does place a value in their work.
Personally disagree that every starting salary in the country needs to be at the average. Experience matters as does the ability to motivate yourself to earn more.
Back on the wider pay deal, id say 6/7 per cent over 18 months again
Lidl workers do a lot more than just scan groceries and are a lot more efficient than most ps civil service workers
A question i'd have as a CS myself and I know it won't be addressed in this round of public pay talks. If we are negotiating pay for the different grades, what is the role envisaged for them in the medium to long term?
For example, I was involved in a project where robotic process automation was used and it replaced the roles that COs and EOs would have traditionally worked. It was cheaper, more accurate and faster. With a much reduced staff requirement, no HEO role was required.
Another example is AOs, will it be formalised that they are now an entry point role which can be assigned the same role profile as a HEO? This is the case in many areas already.
I would also like how PMDS/performance management in general is handled, as currently I think the balance is not right.
Starting salary at Lidl is 30k for scanning groceries and ask if you have Lidl plus
Nursing is 34k after a 4 year degree course, where from day one failure from your part might get someone killed
So in context ... yes its an appaling wage to start on... IMO
Its a decent grad salary. I assume the nurses looked up the pay before entering college.
Haha jaysis 6 out of 6 emigrated forever, thats eh quite unbelievable. 34k is a decent graduate salary though. Is there not any onus on nurses , gardai , teachers to do the very basic level research first of maybe looking at the pay levels before choosing that path.
I'll remember that when I'm waiting 24 hours in A&E in future. Ah sure they're should be more nurses here they get paid great money for being that age....
Do you know any nurses? I do 6 to be percise and guess where they all ended up once qualified? Not in our hospitals because the pay was far worse than the sunny side of Australia.10 years later not 1 has returned.
Again same oul story. . . the age of the person, can't they do more to earn more?. . . . from the same posters time and time again. Excuse after excuse to justify low pay for demanding jobs that they wouldn't do themselves. I'm convinced there's senior civil servants from the DPER posting on here.....either that or seriously nasty people who begrudge hard-working essential public servants a decent wage.
33,943.
34k is not appalling for a 21/22 year old.
It doesn't include shift allowances etc either.
starting salary for a newly qualified nurse in Ireland is €33,193. Like I stated . . . . appallingly paid.
Bit unfair to pick a guard in particular imo. Prison officers, Dublin fire brigade, immigration officers plus others are the same. None of which require a degree. (But at this stage, majority of people applying for any position have a degree anyway as standard)
Tbh, wouldn't begrudge any of them 25% on top of salary for working nights, weekends, unsocial hours etc.
To earn that, they've to work it. So it's a moot point imo. It's money paid for the lack of routine, the impact of nights on health, and I'm sure the constant "I'm in work" for a get together or kids birthday party on a Saturday or "I'll see can I get leave".
Having worked shift work in the private sector myself, and knowing two people who left shift work roles in the public sector, a price can't be put on routine.
The payscales are the payscales. Some will involve more sh1t than others within normal hours, whether it's a Monday to Friday accountant or clerical officer.
Then completely separate to that is shift work for decades. There should be no issues paying extra on top for what's a terribly unhealthy lifestyle both mentally and physically.
I'll refer you to the mod warning above and ask you submit some proof of your claim that nurses are appallingly paid.
Otherwise I'll be reporting your post as baseless lies and presenting my own proof to once again totally contradict you.
Forsa ran a survey....
Qualifications have nothing to do with it. Nursing is now a degree qualification and they are appallingly paid.
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