How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Do the Union leaders not consult with their members beforehand anymore to get a feel for what they want/expect?
A teacher dismissing the value of further education now, what a joke. I suppose you'd be happy enough to see a doctor who does not posses the necessary professional qualifications either then?
It's just as well that the Garda at ten years is paid much more than the base salary then isn't it? They are paid a base salary and allowances and the two together contribute to their take home pay. About 25 - 30% of their earnings is from allowances.
The Revenue data I posted does not include overtime, so there is no expectation the Garda needs to work extra to find themselves included in the top 20% of all income earners in the country by holding nothing more than a Leaving Certification Pass Result as entry criteria.
Talks started today. I wonder when we will start to hear leaks about what each side want or are offering? Will talks be done this side of Xmas and ballot members in early January?
Understand that the Irish government are powerless to solve the public pay issue satisfactorily. Inflation is always a monetary phenomenon. Always.
Pay increases will not outpace real inflation. No chance.
Buy yourself some gold (as much as you can afford). Don't say you can't afford it. We all spend currency according to self-declared priorities.
Or don't. But there it is, plain and simple. Take pain now, or more later.
Mod:
Since we've had to revisit this thread more or less daily for weeks now here's a simple reminder for everyone:
1) You discuss (not attack) the point another person is making; that does not mean you question their character, knowledge, or try to prove you got the biggest cohones around. If you think they are wrong explain why and include some links to facts (that is not including your opinion) to back that view up. If all you got is "Teachers r suxor" then do the world a favour and go get educated on the topic before posting again.
2) Claiming another poster is a troll, moron, has a donkey for a mother etc. all fall under personal abuse. Here's a hint for those that have not been around long enough, but actual trolls love to bait people into attacking them personally ensuring the attacker gets carded instead of them. This is not new or unique to this thread.
3) Someone disagreeing with you is not trolling; that's simply having a different opinion. Now you may think they are the biggest pain in the behind and should be nuked with an orbital laser because of this but that does not stop them from having the right to post on the thread as long as they follow point 1.
4) We (as in Boards) like discussions because it's through discussions that we learn and grow our knowledge; hence we don't want threads where everyone sits around and agrees (another common complaint ironically enough). Having said that if someone is consistently contrarian without backing it up with facts, we will ban you from the thread.
5) If you think someone is breaking the rules as per above do report the post and include what you think they have done wrong; we have two active mods reading all the reported posts. We may not agree with you, but we do read them all and make a call on each individual report as they come in. Why report? Because shock and horror we actually have a life outside boards which means we can not, and will not, read every single thread and post in the forum. Hence reporting helps flag to us that we should go and take a look at.
And with that; back to the topic(s) at hand. If someone wants to start a chat thread to keep this thread more clean you're more then welcome to do that.
Good luck to you, do every competition you can.
You make good points , id dont want to derail it further so leaving it at that.
Similarly young here, main reason I'm working CO because the alternative is being unemployed, trying my best to get to EO because it's difficult to even survive when you take home 480 a week before any expenses!
As an Engineer you found the Chartered Exams harder? Shocker. You trained everyday for the Engineering exams. Its literally your only job in University. The CA were harder....for you. I am assuming you didn't have an accountancy degree to lean on and the years of academic experience that comes with that.
I've done Electronic, Electrical, and Mechanical Engineering exams at undergraduate and postgraduate level. I've also done the Actuarial Exams. I found all of them easy. Why? I find maths logical and easy. I sat a French exam a few weeks ago. F*ck me, I barely passed it. Does that mean French is harder then Engineering?
The difficulty of exams is subjective. CA exams are not "harder" then undergraduate exams in the same way undergraduate exams are not harder then the Leaving Certificate. Nor is pay based on how difficult the job is. Its based off supply and demand. If a company cannot find employees for a certain job, they typically outsource it or raise the salary to attract candidates. Teaching should be no different. Theres a huge shortage. Make the job more attractive both in terms of pay and the job itself. I deal with an U12s team once a week. Its fine and easy enough. It does not mean I could walk in and teach them.
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Yeah thats been my fault the last hour. Ill shut my trap.
Someone get this troll off this thread.
"Me CA exams were rocket science" - No one gives a ****.....Look at the title of the thread you juvenile.
I feel like Public Pay Talks needs an Information/Update thread and a separate Chat thread
When did i say it equated to being a teacher, now whos using a strawman. Yeah the brightest from those areas can get it , it takes 3 years though. What do you do yourself?
Define bog standard...
Something you should have learned in your silly undergrad is the one making the claim is the one needing to back it up. But you think coaching summer camps equates to being a teacher
Because all I see, from your reply here, is that people from all areas are able to come and get chartered. Does not sound that difficult.
I would consider the chartered exams harder than a 4 year undergrad. I did engineering myself. Many peers did the aca exams from all backgrounds , chemistry, law etc. They arent even that difficult but lets face it either is an undergrad , they want you to pass. Without having done both i suppose you have no real opinion worth any weight to the conversation , thats just factual.
Define bog standard?
So medicine is considered higher, to you. What about nursing? Pharmacy?
The hubris is outstanding.
Answer the simple question
Can the government fill existing required positions at the current pay level?
Yes would mean teachers are overpaid or paid sufficiently.
No would mean that they remuneration is not sufficient.
PS: The fact that you want to strawman your way out because I neglected to put an "s" after exam tells plenty, ignoring my previous references to exam"s"
Your profession is not special. Your professional examS pale compared to the post grads doctors, nurses, and technical posts do to move beyond their basic entry level roles
Yeah defintely more diffcult than an undergrad not medicine , but your bog standard undergads of course. I mean you need an undergrad to attempt the chartered exams The fact you think theres one exam shows you dont understand the topic matter. Its also way off topic so ill leave your ignorance at that. Oh i see ypu didnt bother with " Just how much of an undersupply of teachers is there? How many vacancies are there? I mean are we still slow to accept foreign teachers???"
The fact that you still think that coaching kids, for sport I assume, is anything like teaching is bad enough. I mean how do you even get there?
You think that your chartered accountancy exam is more difficult than a medical undergrad?
Or pharmacy, physics, maths etc?
Deluded, absolutely deluded.
I'll ask her!
Sorry i did for 6 hours at a time in summer, mon to friday for 2 months for about 5 summers. The chartered exams are more difficult than undergrad exams. There is also a heap of us , i dont think its some impressive career , but i definitely see why we get paid more than feckin teachers. Just how much of an undersupply of teachers is there? How many vacancies are there? I mean are we still slow to accept foreign teachers???
One hour on a pitch playing is not equivalent to teaching them from Monday to Friday, be they 5 year olds or 18 year olds
Oh wow you're chartered, like how many others? The fact that you think those exams are more difficult than high level tech courses is silly. Next you'll be trying to say that they are more difficult than medical undergrad too, shur all undergrads are easy
Here is one that accountant you should be able to grasp, even if it is more business.
So, are teachers overpaid? let's take a look at the critical criterion
Hahah we were comparing undergrad degrees to the CA exams. Because thats what a teacher needs to get their pay and what an accountant needs. Are you trying to compare yourself to those men lol???? I dont work in Dper. What do you do yourself? Maths teacher is it? Actually dont bother replying , we are clogging up the thread and you are an imbecile.
You think Maths, Chemistry & Physics end at undergrad?
There's me naively thinking some of the greatest living people of all time are people like Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Nikola Tesla. . . . Turns out it's Ibunnae and his beancounter mates working at the DPER.
Pay talks commencing at 3.30pm - i assume this is shadow boxing - Unions want x Gov willing to give y so meet in the middle and meet again next year.
There are no guaranteed increases every year. The existence of big unions is because staff organised and paid for them.
You didnt even know there was CA exams hahahah.Literally thought it was just an undergrad.
and my point was that she's already in a full time job so applying for an entry level job in lots of other areas, not just the public sector, might result in the same thing.
The better comparison might be the pay she got when she started in the retail job and a CO grade?
Your ignorance is astounding. I've never met a CA who would make your claims.
Sorry are you serious? Your claim was oh they manage kids.
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