How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
So the measures that they give to everyone are meant to be remuneration for me?
**** off Paschal
I don't think you can rationally argue that we should match inflation and ignore things like energy credits. They reduce the impact of inflation.
Actually, things like 'universal' energy credits drive inflation. But I guess they help households in the short term.
Honestly just start slow why wait for the union? My wage is nowhere enough to live off so you pay peanuts you get monkey's....
"Of course, I would expect that the significant package of cost of living and taxation measures provided for in this Budget, which will benefit public servants, would be appropriately factored into those discussions," Mr Donohoe said in his speech.
what absolute nonsense .. some very short lived temporary energy credits (for everyone) .. permanent cost of living increases for workers and 14 billion giveaway for those on the dole
nothing for hundreds of thousands of government employees is not going to wash right before an election year
I don't deny that but I also don't see the relevance in relation to my point.
They're one off, the inflation has baked in increases across the board.
It also means the government now pays non-employees too? Why?
keep your nonsense out of it.
Nonsense? Look at the post above yours when you made this comment. When challenged, that poster accepted my position. So it not nonsense.
It's the same as the Teaching and Lecturing forum, I have dozens of posts there and I don't know the first thing about teaching!
The lies and spin is so prevalent there, it has to be challenged and corrected continuously. The regulars there would love to see me banned from there too but of course can't because my points are 100% factual and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on banning someone who disagrees with the spin.
It's far from nonsense I can tell you that.
This line they took last year, and now again this year, that "budget measures" should be taken into consideration when negotiating public service pay agreements needs to be knocked on the head by the Unions, immediately.
I knew when they got away with it last year, that they would do it again.
No it’s definitely nonsense…it’s why you disappear out of the thread for a while every time you make a fool of yourself. At least you aren’t ‘debating’ with your other account this time I suppose.
And you’d have been banned a long time ago if the site wasn’t so desperate for every bit of traffic it can get.
Jesus, this site used to be so busy there was only ever good faith debate because single posters were expendable
Not sure if this is the right thread to ask this in, but thought I’d try get some opinions anyways.
I saw the news yesterday about the HSE recruitment freeze now applying to all staffing. I’m applying for a clerical officer role and at the last stages of the process - no contract signed though. I’d say it is highly likely this news will impact my role so I’m fearful I’ll be told it won’t going it ahead.
I did see Sinn Fein were calling for the decision to be reversed immediately. Is there any chance that there’ll be an outcry and the government will give in and give the HSE the bail out they’re looking for?!
You might have better look on this thread: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058309793/hse-recruitment-freeze-limbo#latest
They given them twice now. Not quite a one off.
They should be factored into the discussion . They have eased the effect of inflation and their is a solid argument that the increase should be the inflation rate excluding the cost of energy (or a reduced effect.of that). If the credits are gone next year, that can be factored into the next deal. Once there's some consistency.
It's a reasonable position for the government to take.
Budget measures should not form any part of pay negotiations for the simple reason that they do not apply to all. Across the population, some benefitted much more generously than others.
Not every person in the employ of the Civil and Public Service is either (a) a homeowner or a renter who is also the bill payer (b) a parent of young children (c) in receipt of some form of social welfare.
I guarantee you if someone in the private sector was negotiating a new pay rate with their employer, and the employer said "ah sure, didn't you benefit from the electricity credits?" it wouldn't fly.
It is not a reasonable position for the government to include budget measures as part of a pay negotiation, and the Unions need to make that very clear.
I'll definately be communicating this to my Union Representatives on Monday, and I suggest others do the same.
Then by the same logic, inflation shouldn't factor into pay negotiations. It doesn't effect everyone equally.
The energy credits were universal and it's perfectly understandable for them to be used as an argument.
If you're not effected by the increase in energy prices directly then you didn't receive the credits. If you are, then you received the credits. It's a fair a reasonable position for the government to take. of course budget measures will be factored in if of course you accept inflation should be the foundational argument for increases.
Yet again, your logic is flawed. The account holder gets the energy credit.
Do you think every owner-occupier who is letting out rooms, will share the credit with their licencees?
Or that every twenty or thirty something who is stuck living at home with their parents because they can't afford to move out, and who are trying to save while also contributing to their keep, are un-effected by the rise in energy costs?
Just because their name is not on the account, does not mean they are un-effected.
But they certainly will not receive the "universal" energy credits. Because they're not universal.
But the public pay talks are not going to be dictated by the small percentage you are talking about. The unions are negotiating for the majority and the vast majority of people in the public sector will receive energy credits.
I'm not going to get into the weeds with regards licensees or people living with Mam and Dad. Those people likely don't split the bills. If the licensee is paying a flat rate, then they're not effected. If they split the bill, of course you'd expect the credit to be passed on.
The vast majority of people in the public sector are either uneffected by rising domestic energy prices or the impact has been greatly reduced by the credits. Hence, its fair to take them (and probably them alone) into account. The handful on the outside unfortunately, in my opinion, tough.
Why should the vast majority get the energy credits and a rise equal to inflation (including rising energy costs over the past 2 years)? That doesn't make sense. The energy credits have to be taken into account for them and that may result in a 0.5 or 1% difference.
It's also alright for us to have differing opinions.
the minimum wage is rising from 11.3 to 12.70 next year.. a 12.4% increase
if other lower paid workers dont see increases to keep on a par with cost of living increases there wont be much incentive for these workers
A very good point. Public servants will get no where near 12.4%. They'll be lucky to get half that and my prediction is that it will be a quarter of that figure.
"The unions are negotiating for the majority and the vast majority of people in the public sector will receive energy credits."
You'd be surprised. From what I can see in my own dept very few under 40 who are homeowners or not stuck living at home or in a house-share.
"The handful on the outside unfortunately, in my opinion, tough."
Really?
You know, for all you say that you'll refuse any deal that is less than inflation, I think you're really playing at being some kind of devils' advocate.
with euro zone inflation now projected to be 4% for next year ordinary skilled PS workers will fall behind again
many including teachers will vote with their feet and head elsewhere
However these energy credits in no way compensate for rises in others costs such as food and other essentials.
My wife and I are PS workers. We got one credit between us. Why do we have to share a "benefit'?
It's a joke and you know it
Hence why I said factor in the credits. It doesn't wash away inflation i.e. inflation minus contribution from gas/electricity (I'm not actually saying it's that blunt and all.of energy should be ignored)
I'll wait on the deal to be published and judge it then. If it's less then inflation, I'll vote no. I'll factor in energy credits into my decision.
Wanting the best deal and factoring in budgetary measures (specifically energy credits) are not mutually exclusive.
We arrive at different positions. I get your view and see the rationale. I just don't agree.
Well then the rising cost of energy is split between you. Why should you get a pay rise to combat the full cost when it only partially effects you?
You might not agree with my view but there is rationale to it. You just don't agree with it. Thats fine. I get the counter argument, it's just not one I buy into.
Good point.
So not a pay rise and not universally applied.
Private sector employees get that plus any pay rise.
Households with one of each get multipliers, in your world. In no pay negotiations should tax credits and grants every make an impact to pay.
They also mean sweet **** all to my pension
Why the hell are people shilling for the employer? Turkey votes and Christmas come to mind
So I agree a 4000 raise with my employer. But then we go through and tot up the government budgetary measures applicable to me and reassess. €450 energy credit, 2 kids so a double payment in December €280, tax changes 2024 is about €1000. I am better of by €1,730.
4000-1730=2270 is the raise I'll be offered.
Is that what the Private Sector should do? It's essentially what the Paschal is suggesting for the Public Sector, except worse cause it's an across the board negotiation.
It's an absolute farce.
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