In retrospect I think Doris belongs in that group of elite young talent too, but he was in a poor u20 side and didn't get the recognition he probably deserved.
He's the biggest success story of Ireland's player pathways in recent years imo. He's a top 3 player in the world in his position and included in multiple World best XVs. Moved very swiftly from u20 to provincial debut to test debut.
Larmour is the poster child of Leinster failing to develop players because of their over abundance at the province. He has an incredible athletic profile along with skill and brains and he is no better today than he was 4 years ago, and has probably gone backwards in confidence. I’d be amazed if his trajectory would have stalled out in the same way at Munster or Connacht.
If i was looking for a proto VdF in one of the provinces, that’s Kendellan body and athleticism wise to me. Especially when you have a ton of carrying in your pack, that can be extremely useful.
Surely the prototype would be someone who isn't getting gametime? Not Larmour who has played a tonne for Leinster
I see Van der Flier as a super mobile player, he can play 80 and cover every blade of grass, and pop up on the wing at pace in broken play. However, I don't think he does enough at the breakdown, and carrying, he did show some improvement in 2022 I thought but didn't reach those levels recently.
I don't think Kendellen is as athletic, I think he's actually brilliant at the breakdown and probably similar at carrying. They are both 6'2" and around 103-105kg. But I would think they are different types of players. Kendellen's strengths are different though in my opinion.
Im thinking more about his International career and I'd compare him to Conway in that regard, though obvs Conway has a hill to climb to get back into the test scene.
Could say the same about McGrath, has everything you could want in a SH, bar consistent passing. Worry about Porter too, 3 seasons in at LH and still has the same fundamental issues with his scrummaging.
thats a very strange 'postage stamp' revision of larmours career to date.
theres a few reasons larmour hasnt progressed as much as his initial hype would have suggested. Hes been injured for a lot of those 4 years you are referring to.
Hes also been injured for a heck of a length of time leading into the RWC. he missed the november internationals in 2022 with a foot injury and most of the 6 nations in 2022 with a hip injury (not a good injury to have with his style of play), and had back problems leading into it.
he picked up a bad injury in oct 2020 which kept him out until 2021, and he had a shoulder injury in December 2021 which kept him out for over a month
in the 3 seasons before his injuries started to become a problem he was a consistent 1500 mins plus per season player (very similar to Conway actually, who only has had one season of any significant high minutes with muster in 19/20, most season around then he was a 1500+ min player, and also has suffered from injury disruption in later seasons)
i wouldn't agree that his trajectory has stalled due to being at leinster either. He is very much on the radar of Andy farrell who only this year said of larmour:
“He’s certainly a character we’ve missed around the place. If you could have 36 players of one type of personality, you’d probably want 36 Jordans. He’s such a great guy to work with. He’s so positive, so aware of himself, such a good teammate etc.
“It’s great to see him back fully fit, and playing some pretty bloody rugby. I think of the break he made (for Leinster against Racing) from the halfway line when Ross (Byrne) threw him the ball. It takes something special of an athlete to do what Jordan did.”
the only way Larmours trajectory could have continued upwards at another province is if those injuries didnt happen, and the location of the province he plays with is immaterial to that
He's played a fair amount for Leinster in those years but if you believe his omission from the Irish team is exclusively to do with injuries Ill disagree with you without going through every season to compare the timings of his injuries with the selections for Ireland.
No where did I say "exclusively due to injuries" so if you disagree with that statement then your disagreeing with yourself.
I said the was a few reasons but didn't think I had to go and list them all, as injury is the most significant reason.
He's still at that level immediately below the current squad, so not bad for a guy who's development was hindered by Leinster for the last 4 years.
Iirc, Farrell initially selected him as his starting FB at the start of his tenure. But Keenan (who initially started on the wing) overtook him and Larmour hasn't really gotten much of a look in since. Part of that is injury related, but you'd have to think there's a good number ahead of him in the pecking order.
I agree.
The fact that Larmour still has the same weaknesses as he had a few years ago is surely a reflection on the coaching?
He wouldn't be the only rugby player who had a poor aspect to his game.
At what point does it become the players issue and not the coaching... Or do you think coaches look at a players game and decide not to work on their deficiency?
No idea, tbh. It's shocking to me that there's been little or no improvements for Larmour.
Is it poor coaching or wanting different attributes in a player to match the coach’s game plan?
Larmour is quite a bit smaller than the Irish back 3, and to my knowledge has never exhibited a side of him where he can come off his wing and get creative with kicks or carries, maybe Leinster supporters could speak more to that?
Forde and Osborne are both left footers, so you wouldn’t necessarily need a left footed winger
42.ie reporting plans for Emerging Ireland/Ireland A vs Portugal in March.
Good to see they're continuing with this approach to looking at up and coming talent.
https://www.the42.ie/ireland-portugal-international-6218107-Nov2023/
along with skill and brains
Larmour has plenty of skill but I think it's the brains department where his biggest weakness lies.
It's behind a paywall so I can't read the article, I think in principle it's a great idea to have "A" games again. However, I think they need to run in parallel with the International window rather than cut into window of club competitions so I prefer to see this game being around the 6Ns rather than later in March.
I was going to add to the post if it would be worthwhile repurposing Osborne back into a winger!
He has the passing and kicking skills with size to make an excellent 12 with ball in hand. Still not sure about his defense. He has loads of time but I just don't know if its in him to be an excellent defender.
Ringrose has the 13 spot locked down.
Don't know enough about Forde other than he plays 12 (bit of 10) and looks good with ball in hand.
Doris one of the most overhyped players in the World. He was utterly anonymous in the World Cup and anonymous in both European Cup finals he's played in. His handling is still sub par. Certainly not in the top 3 no.8s in the World. He's on borrowed time with Gleeson and Culhane coming through.
More edgy stuff
Moth to a flame stuff.
Andrew Conway retiring from rugby. Big shame
Pity for him. He never lived up to his initial hype but had a very good career and seems very content with it
Even if Gleeson got 8, Doris would be an excellent 7.
What do we think of Jager coming to Ireland? I honestly don’t think he’s that good. If Salanoa can stay fit he’s a better player as well.
Salanoa can't still fit, time to move him on
"Never lived up to his hype" - shut up you dick
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