Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Again, I'm afraid that you are unwittingly falling for Russian propaganda. The first aim of what the Kremlin talking heads are trying to achieve is to convince people that Russia are correct. But, given that is a big ask, the secondary purpose is to neutralise any support for Ukraine. So, for example, the purpose of the Ukraine is corrupt and full of Nazis talk is to try to convince people that they are the bad guys, but failing that it works just as well for people to think that Ukraine and Russia are equally bad.

Out of morbid facination I sometimes listen to the pro Russian commentators. Very often they are saying the same things about Ukraine that Ukraine says about Russia e.g. that Ukraine are engaging in human meat waves, that Russia isn't trying to take territory but instead to deplete Russia's fighting ability, that Ukrainian troops are suffering from poor morale etc. The idea is primarily to make us doubt what we hear from Ukraine and its supporters because we are hearing the same from the Russian side.

It is also the case that there probably is some truth in everything so a lot of the problems are exaggeration and amplification rather than outright making things up. And something which is false isn't necessarily a lie or propaganda - sometimes the information is wrong by mistake etc.

So how does one approach the difficult task of deciding which of these two versions are correct? Well, obviously it is a matter for yourself and its hard to resist taking a side, particularly the side of the country which was invaded against its will (I obviously mean Ukraine, but I'm conscious that some people have heard Russia talk about how Ukraine has been taken over by Nato Nazis and Russia is trying to liberate them etc).

Well, I think the first thing to note is that what we are normally exposed to is not necessarily what the Ukrainians say, but what the Western supporters of Ukraine say. The West is at a remove from the conflict in a way that Russia is not. If Ukraine loses the West is dissappointed, if Russia loses Russia might collapse. So while I am not claiming that the West is impartial in that there is a clear interest in Ukraine winning, they are at least not as invested in the narrative as Russia is.

Second, there is free speech in the West. We believe that people can have and exchange opinions and that by doing so, ultimately the truth will out. Russia does not have much by way of free speech. This in turn means that really whopper lies like "We withdrew voluntarily from Kyiv because we never intended to take it, it was just a cunning distraction hahahah" appear in Russian propaganda because people are primed to not question it, whereas Western sources have to be grounded.

Third, Ukraine and the West will openly admit when things are going badly for them. The Western analysis did not give Ukraine much hope at the start and said so. They have been guarded in their support and said so. They are having difficulties in producing enough equipment to provide what Ukraine wants and have said so. Ukraine has suffered large casualties and a damaged economy and said so (albeit the exact number of casualties has not been published). The southern counteroffensive is at an end and, while Ukraine have said that it is paused, Washington has said that it has failed.

By contrast, Russia have been vague about their goals and have always maintained that they are winning. They have constantly stated that Russia is strong and supported by the Global South, India and China and everyone else other than NATO. They are saying how their factories are working triple shifts and production has gone up by several multiples. They admitted to a tiny amount of casualties at the start and have refused to comment on same since. They claim that their GDP is booming and that inflation is low. They refuse to accept that they were beaten back at Kyiv, Kherson and Kharkov and have trumpted the capture of Bakhmut as a decisive victory. They never admit anything that goes against their narrative.

Fourth, open sources like Oryx have demonstrated that there is more evidence to support Ukraine's claims than there is to support Russia's claims. Russian propaganda will have it that Oryx is just Ukrainian propaganda, but it is about as robust and transparent an information source you can get. The Russians are free to upload evidence of visually confirmed losses of the Ukrainian side if they wish.

Fifth, you can look at the motives of each side. The Russians have to project the image that they are in control, that everything is going to plan and that they are a military superpower. They cannot let people know anything to the contrary because their whole system would fall apart. Any public admission that this is a fiasco could end Putin's reign. They have an incentive to lie to people to maintain this pretence.

Ukraine by contrast have a major incentive to tell the truth - if the war isn't going well for them, it is because they need more equipment and, whatever about journalists and media commentators, they have to be absolutely transparent with the US and other NATO countries because if they are not they will lose their support. Moreover, the narrative that things are not going well for them does not risk a collapse on their side. Their people are fighting for their homes and their land and their freedom. If Ireland was being invaded and we were told that the war wasn't going well, this would not discourage us from fighting but would spur us on.

Finally, you can look at the people who are actually saying these things. Scott Ritter, Tucker Carlson, Roger Watters etc vs legitimate and reputable media sources like BBC, Washington Post, Irish times etc. And I know, blah blah blah mainstream media agenda big pharma etc. But lets be real - there is a huge difference between the people who are talking on both sides.

So there is probably a mix of truth and falsehood on both sides. But we can safely say that most of what the Ukranian supporting side is saying is reliable but that most of what the Russian supporting side is saying is not. Certainly, you cannot point to one thing that the Ukrainians say as being untrue as a reason to discount everything else they say, whereas it is perfectly reasonable to treat everything that Russia says with a high degree of skepticism.