How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Ah yeah I'm sure they always know the expected end point early on. Both sides are used to it. I think they might try something different than a flat %. Might be a mix of things like a couple of one off payments and %s different for different levels. They might try that back dating crack as well , people liked that.
I mean the end point. I expect the union and the government chief negotiators to have a pretty good idea of what the final percentage will be.
It's just a lot of pagentry for the public on both sides.
I mean obviously those in the negotiations know the deal haha. Or do you mean they all know the end point already?
Well obviously by everyone i mean those in the negotiations. There's always a smart arse.
What is the deal so?
There is no need for a ballot before the current agreement expires. The new deal should take effect early next year. There is plenty of time.
Why would ICTU give their hand away? Issuing a statement does absolutely nothing. It gives the Government a starting point to talk down from. When it comes to convincing members to accept the whatever deal is reached, there will be a huge chorus saying "I'll only accept the deal you said at the start".
I imagine everyone knows what the deal is but there is a necessary song and dance about it until it is announced.
Hard to see a proposal and a ballot done before the current agreement expires. You would think ICTU would at least put out a statement detailing what is there starting point or demands in the negotiations.
Thanks, arrears pay from August to 13/10 doesn't seem correct that case. Will be getting in touch with NSSO.
It covers the 13th to the 26th (and includes weekends, so divide 14)
Sorry, i know it's not relevant but easier than starting new thread. I'm trying to work out the arrears pay on my payslip after promotion. Next pay date is 26/10. I'm guessing this for the period worked 12-26 Oct 23, correct?
Yeah there can be a bit of randomness especially when your bring the public service into it. And the requirements can be sometimes wildly unrealistic for the salary. Some organisations just chance their arm I guess.
Interesting, thanks. I think once you move out of policy work in the civil service (which obviously is core work), the grades start to look a bit odd for other functions, especially when you then bring public service into it.
Like I've seen IT manager at HEO and AP level for similar roles and org sizes.
AP and PO Higher are different grades that you can be promoted to - they've existed for a long time, and were historical tied to policy work in D/Finance and D/Taoiseach (D/PER too, after it was created).
If you get an offer under an interdepartmental competition for AP or PO Higher, you'll still be placed in one of those Departments; they have internal competitions for them as well. I think the competitions are fairly regular.
Movement to higher scales for CO, EO, HEO, and AO are not defined as promotions. They were created on foot of a pay agreement in the mid-90s. You can see more on this in circular 24/1995. Civil Service orgs are required to maintain a certain percentage of staff of each of these grades at the higher scale. If they drop below, they'll appoint more people to it. This is often done via seniority, but the exact methods vary across organization.
Depends on the department, some just purely go off longevity in the role at Ap or Heo. So they are just awarded to you or other depts like dept of finance you interview for them and in theory there's a bit more responsibility attached.
Some of the grades could be combined. Why is there a HEO and HEO (Higher) grade?Or AP and AP Higher. Is there really that much a difference between roles?
It's a chicken and egg situation though. Now a days the vast majority of union members are old and they seem to really struggle to get new entrants to join. Most of the members would be on the the old terms and conditions and closer to the top of their pay scales. Those extra few percent aren't as important as the top of the scale compared to the bottom.
But as long as people don't join and union and vote no, they just be leaving the decision to be made by the current, longer term civil servants. The union heads know this as well and suggest rejecting a deal if they feel the vast majority of their members will accept it.
Well that's something we do agree on, I think the lower pay grades should be given a higher %. I'm an engineering/acc grade 2 but I couldn't give a shite if lower grades come closer to my salary. Give them more of an increase as the chances are cost of living is hitting them more.
A very wise woman once told me, "the truth goes down damn bitter."
I'm not going to vote for something that is affectively a pay cut, either for myself, or for my lower paid colleagues.
No point advocating here for greater increases aimed at the lower paid grades - or even a flat rate increase, Bren, you'll just be told you're narrowing the gap between the grades and de-valuing the work of the higher paid grades.
Been there, done that.
It is not more profitable to be on the dole then in a job.
Hahah well come back to me when 8% is voted yes. Best to leave it there , we don't see eye to eye. I'm not impressed with the colleagues comment tbh , but anyway good luck.
This government have made it more profitable to be on the dole than to get a job.
Forget any unemployed people looking for Christmas work. Too many double payments and bonuses would be lost.
Then advocate for higher pay for COs not begrudge people on social welfare. It's not a race to the bottom.
10% over two years with inflation currently running at over 6%?
No, its not enough.
But what about an extra 10 now. You are saying 10 isn't enough? Seems like stupidly unrealistic expectations to me. But of course it's also your right. But very very unfair for you to spout nonsense of me not valuing my colleagues.
That's your right.
But remember, 6.5% in the face of inflation of more than double that, was not a pay increase.
Yeah I'll do me. Ill vote in favour if it's close to 10. As will everyone else.
I think I just said it.
But like I amended - NVM. I'm not going down this rabbit hole again.
You do you.
Haha what do you want? We got 6.5% recently? 10 would be incredible. And it would be accepted with a 90% yes. So what are you trying say?
NVM.
An awful life 🤣 Who are you kidding. I'd tell you stories only I've signed the official secrets act.
A working family of 2 adults,2 kids starting off a as CO gets less than the same family on welfare
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