If you want to engage in some good old-fashioned Russian Whataboutery what about the tens of thousands of Ukrainians who willingly defend their country? What about the millions who endure and are willing to see this through? Whataboutism - Wikipedia
The negotiation is Russia leaves.
We’ll see how it ends. I’m guessing talks and agreements. You lads have some heroic victory over the Russians. Only one of us will be right.
How do you negotiate with someone who has proven they won't stick to an agreement? Ukraine gave up its soviet era nuclear weapons with an agreement with russia that their borders were to be respected yet now putin has taken part of Ukraine and sent hundreds of thousands of troops there to occupy the land they ceased or die trying to do so. I have read some of the weapons they gave up have actually been fired back at Ukraine by putin's forces just to make it even clearer that putin can not be trusted.
The idea that there was going to be a massive break in the moskovyte lines this summer and the occupying troops would be expelled quickly from Ukraine was a nice idea but I suspect Ukraine is aware that they need to destroy putin's war machine so it can't be used against them again and unfortunately I don't think that is going to be achieved very quickly. The Ukrainians are however making progress.
The thing is, what follows is that every time Russia chooses to invade a territory they get a favourable deal. You're also ignoring that there's gonna be a huge amount of animosity from Ukrainians towards Russia so it's unlikely that the public mood will favour handing over territories. The only favourable scenario in negotiations is Russia's immediate exit from the country and reparations for the war, that is not likely to happen.
You've also made pretty untruthful claims such as claiming Fico isn't pro Putin even though he's actively justified the war in recent weeks. That's not shades of grey, that's either ignorance or being dishonest.
Well either you are a bullshitting Putin's useful idiot spreading disinformation (most likely) or you haven't a breeze about what is at stake for Ukraine and their only way of seeing a peaceful end to this.
Either way you are spouting waffle.
Ive been saying this for weeks , ramping up production for artillery won't reach maximum capacity until 2028 , Ive posted previous articles saying exactly this was going to happen,the several companies who produce shells are trying to supply NATO and Ukrainian but NATO orders will be getting Priority due to the shortages , NATO does not have unlimited supplies of munitions,and still only 7 Countries out of 30 are making the 2% gdp spending requirements for NATO ,but Ukraine are chewing through thousands of rounds of artillery week in and week out,
Look at the end of the day, the only way the war will end is through negotiations. Whether that’s today, tomorrow, next week, month or year.
I’ll be happy once it’s over and people can get back to some semblance of normality. Apparently that makes me some form of Putin supporter. The world is not black and white. There are shades of gray everywhere.
More bad news but they do mention they've still got half their stocks so it should last a while. Need to get their act together though.
They left Ukraine because Europe offered refuge. Not everyone can fight, and not everyone wants to fight.
Millions left the areas Russia annexed quickly (people that didn't wish to live under Russian occupation) and also areas near current front lines within range of Russian artillery and other attacks, which fighting has made unlivable.
Without the easy access to the EU, the people would mostly have had to be rehoused and supported in unoccupied regions of Ukraine, a large burden for a country trying to defend itself. As already mentioned movements in/out of Ukraine have been ebbing and flowing since then, with the progress of the war etc.
Govt.'s of countries that are facing existential threat + are a gonner if the military fails [a situation we could find it hard to bend our noodles around] will try and urge people to join the military, and will use conscription when they have to. Should not be a big shock.
That this happens is not actually a reflection of public support in Ukraine for continuing fighting, or for the current positions of their govt. on land concessions to Russia to stop the figting etc. No one rational usually wants to fight "to the death" and of course should situation becomes hopeless for Ukraine (it is not I think), they will stop fighting.
It is all just the heaping of misery their neighbour has piled on them, but for some reason you criticise govt. there or those giving military aid that helps them keep fighting.
Russia of course has no need to fight and no reasons to force people into their meat grinder but they are busy doing both all for a filthy war of choice with pretty base goals. Putin can try & throw a coat of patriotic Mother Russia paint on it but we outside the bubble should be able to see what it is. People piping up about Ukraine & conscription don't have very much to say about this here usually!
You're not wrong on the distance stuff but I'd assume that just like fighter pilots, younger drone operators are preferable due to their naturally higher levels of eye-hand co-ordination. An army will always need cooks though and that's definitely one thing I think we all get better at with age!
To be fair with the the way drones are those 40/50/60 year olds could literally be using drones and taking out tanks etc. Not exactly on the front line but distance from it, so I say in years to come u could literally be in 1 part of the country and flying small drones and could be taking tanks out and would not need to be near the frontlines at all.
Would I fight if Ireland was invaded? I'd like to say I would but in reality an out-of-shape, forty-something with crap eyesight isn't going to be much use on the frontlines so signing up to "fight" for me would more than likely mean helping out in some logistic capacity: cooking, servicing equipment, helping out in a medical facility etc. and I'd certainly be volunteering to do such work if it meant defending my family from a barbaric agressor like Russia.
I do always wonder what it must look like for these bad faith posters when they log in again and their Notifications is just this giant stream of slap downs.
We've already had the "Ukraine is corrupt" track in the Greatest Hits so I presume they'd simply downplay russian atrocities as propaganda, or attempt to call your bluff to find the proof for them.
The best path for peace, tragically, sometimes lies through war. Otherwise democracy has no intrinsic value if it's not worth fighting for during a clear existential crisis. Would I fight? Would any of us? I don't think I would but I also can't say because whatever else the UK was, they didn't lust after our lands the way Russia lusts for its USSR borders, or wipe out Ukrainians in the siezed territories.
And when Russia invades again in a years time rearmed and supply lines ready for this new front? Should we give up the rest of the Ukraine then?
How many more will die then?
Would you be happy to have your wife/mother/daughter/sister gang-raped by Russian soldiers occupying your country in the name of "peace"?
Perhaps you have no women you care about in your life? If that's the unlikely case, maybe you'd be happy to be tortured or castrated by those same occupying Russian soldiers for that "peace"?
If not, why do you propose this as a valid option for Ukrainians?
99 rub to USD
Let's see if they can break 100 again
There have always been conscientious objectors in wars, and cowards plain and simple, and their existence has never meant that the majority of people wouldn't fight to the death for a cause. In Ukraine's case, there must have also been a sizeable number of people who had always wanted to emigrate into an EU country, and their eyes lit up when they heard that the visa restrictions were scrapped. Those people couldn't get into the EU quick enough.
One cannot negotiate in good faith with a country that has repeatedly broken previous agreements, invaded a neighbouring sovereign country and murdered, tortured, raped, 'disappeared' and kidnapped its citizens.
A Russian collapse in to chaos would likely be a century defining event.
Letting them hold ground shows the days of Pax Americana and the idea of the West enforcing global order, stability, a rule of law are nearly over.
That's a big thing as well,
"Wonder what you’re trying to achieve by making such posts ???"
Deflect?Satisfy delusions of adequacy?
Millions and millions of Ukrainians have remained in Ukraine and are willing to fight. Not everyone is in a position to fight. They are the people who have left. The very same thing would happen in most major countries in the world if they were invaded. What a dis - informative post you have made there. Wonder what you’re trying to achieve by making such posts ??? 🤔
Can't tell if this is trolling or not. Will just assume you know very little about the situation based on the statement above.
Russia invaded on 24th Feb 2022. Many assumed that Russia would take the country in a matter of days/weeks. Putin is an authoritarian dictator, the aim was to occupy the country and subjugate (including systematic murder/torture/imprisonment/sham trials/rape/abduction). Millions naturally fled (mostly women, children and the old).
Contrary to just about every analyst's prediction, Ukrainian forces and volunteers put up an exceptional defense, far exceeding any expectations. They didn't just hold Russia outside the capital, they actually pushed them back, quite considerably. Russian forces now occupy around 18% of the country. As a result of this action, people did start returning to Ukraine last year (at one point in 2022, Ukr forces stopped recruiting as they had enough troops, and were focusing on quality over quantity)
There's an ebb and a flow, e.g. during the winter last year, when Russia targeted energy infrastructure in an effort to freeze Ukraine, naturally some people left. Obviously those from areas which have been occupied, or those based near the frontline haven't been able to return or have had to relocate to the West of the country.
National and domestic public support within Ukraine against the war has been overwhelming throughout the entire period. The figures are high majorities.
This is their decision to defend themselves, they are aware of the costs they are paying. When/how they decide to go to the table is also their decision. Not anyone else's, certainly not Putin supporters and appeasers cosplaying as "peace activists".
"Ukraine can be thankful for what it has received but will rightly also feel it was short changed to break the Russian war machine but leave Putin enough gains to keep in power and ensure Russian State stability"
Hurts to say it but maybe even Ukraine has an interest in Russian State stability?0
I think we may well do too -at least in something like a controlled collapse(seems to be coming one way or the other-such fools to imagine they can "elect" dictators and prosper)
(To your other point)Sure Ukraine may feel thankful for the support it has received but it would be entitled to 10 times as much anger and disillusion had it not been so supported.
We are supporting them in our own self interest.They are fighting a war that will mean we don't have to get our own hands dirty and bloody.
And it is Russia who has demonstrated this time and time again, clearly breaking negotiated agreements with Ukraine multiple times.
Neotiate in “good faith” is not possible with Russia - a kleptocratic autocracy.
Sure but for once I'd like these posters to be honest about their intent and stop this pretence that they're so very concerned about the dead of Ukraine. But it's just a front for affecting superiority over others; their opening posts smugly lambasting people here indicative enough - even if they're not so self-aware as to spot the irony in chiding sofa warmongering while indugling in armchair geopolitics.
Apparently peace under a despot is better than death defending your homeland. Someone should tell these people fighting in Bakhmut it's better to be a slave than a fighter.
You know the drill. Should countries stop providing support for Ukraine and Russia were to get the upper hand and take a larger chunk of the country leaving a rump Ukraine as Putins puppet, the same posters would be on here decrying "war mongers goading Russia into further aggression" for insisting that a minimum standard of human rights is applied to Ukrainians in occupied territories.
Kinda missing the point but not going to speak for my colleague beyond his actions. Which is that not all choose to fight. Care to at least address the rest of my post or are you content to affect superiority for thinking Peace at any Cost has merit in all scenarios?
Some people want to give into Putin to justify their own failure to tackle bullies in their own lives.
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