he's probably only going to be Taoiseach for a year at most, he'll be limited in how many sweeties he can hand out in Wicklow.
Wasn't he one of the politicians sticking his oar in, utlimatley causing the canning of the mainline upgrade project which included minor junction closures and link roads to reduce local traffic from mainline.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens here given the Taoiseach elect’s apparent unhappiness with Ministerial stonewalling of this project in Fine Gael PP and Cabinet meetings in the past 12 months
I remember that. The topology of the area would make building anything like that interesting to say the least. There are some quite steep drops in places between the edge of any housing along the Herbert Road and the Dargle valley.
I'd say they may revisit the larger N11 plan which included a link road between J6 and J7 that connected to Herbert Road.
Exactly. You only have to look at the amount of traffic taking that exit especially in the evenings to see that closing that would only result in the tailback for the Bray South exit extending even further back on the hard shoulder than it is already.
I'd say 90% of those complaints are about the Herbert Road junction. There's been a concerted campaign to keep it open, and it's not rich lawyer types, it's people who live in the estates on the west side of Bray.
NIMBYS are not listened to unless they have loads of money.
Sadly, there's lots of rich sods around this area who would never let progress happen if it means taking some of their land.
There wouldn't be half as much opposition if it was somewhere less Eamon Ryan-y, let's say ...
While I appreciate the councillors have to represent their electorate, they also need to understand the n11 is an important national route.
Every day, one junction journeys by people using it as a local road are having a serious impact on the traffic flows, ( often as there no other options, but this where links roads help).
The road needs to be upgraded, but every time the engineers and consultants design and propose plans, the councillors and noisey locals throw their toys out of the pram.
1,000's of objections.
Exactly. That junction is a disaster already with the traffic light timing giving priority to the other 3 arms of the junction. It's not uncommon to sit through 3 or 4 light changes when trying to get on to Killarney Road from Kilbride Lane which, if the Herbert Road junction is closed off, will be the only option anybody at the southern end of Herbert Road will have to access the N11 in either direction.
Closing off the Herbert road egress will push traffic back to Kilbride lane where the traffic lights there at the top of the Boghall road is already chaotic. That junction would benefit from being converted to a roundabout but that won't happen with the need for pedestrian crossings - especially for Bray School Project
Front Page of the Wicklow Times devoted to Joe Behan/ residents opposing it.
Yeah, said this last year, that plan was on a whole quite good and addressed a lot of the flow issues that currently cause a lot of the congestion.
One valid point I saw on FB was that in the main N11 plan, a service road would have been built between J6 and J7 to pick up Herbert Rd and the other minor accesses. In the bus lane plan, that is only being built as a small connecting road from J6 to Dargle Lane and Herbert Rd. will not be connected to it.
While you're right that there's some element of "I've always driven this way, why should I change"; it almost certainly will increase traffic within western Bray in the short term at least. Traffic patterns may shift subsequently, traffic evaporation may occur etc but that's a hard sell.
Tensions rise over roads spending as Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil press Eamon Ryan
Interesting that Simon Harris made a contribution. The only major project in his constituency is this one.
From reading comments on fb it seems that the general gripe is (a) there are no buses so why do we need a buslane (b) there are no buses that benefit me, so why do we need a buslane, (c) I've always used the Herbert rd junction so don't want to be inconvenienced.
Also seems to be a large number that don't understand the scope of the works and who cant read plans so just believe all the negative aspects of the project they read on social media.
I've mentioned this on others threads, but Tii need to be much more proactive in how they present projects and need to put more positive spin on them. It only feeds the naysayers and nimbys who want to derail projects.
I suppose they could walk/cycle to the proposed P&R at Fassaroe over the existing footbridge, but you're asking people to look at the wider picture, which usually doesn't work in these consultations when local politicians are assuming the worst case scenario.
Wouldn't those at that end of Herbert Road potentially benefit from the buses on the N11, if they had (asked for?) the bus stops? And the active travel route? Also, will reduce the traffic into Bray via that route, opening more active travel/ access to the town.
Given part of the proposal is to improve the traffic flow at Hills, it's a bit apples and oranges to compare the current traffic flows to at the end of the scheme.
Also I wonder how many people are exiting Herbert rd only to exit n11 at jn7 again.
I don't think the numbers doing that are significant, it would only be worth your while if you were living at the end of Herbert Rd and going to somewhere on the Southern X and even then it's probably of marginal time benefit.
I don't have a problem with public meetings, but he's being disingenuous when he says the the Enniskerry turn will be closed. Yes it will be closed but the solution is to have it connected to jn6 which imo, will mean less traffic using the hills 'roundabout' junction.
Also I wonder how many people are exiting Herbert rd only to exit n11 at jn7 again. The thing that skips most peoples view is that the n11 isn't supposed to be used as a local road, which is why the original plan had many benefits. But as usual everyone is outraged and nobody wants to compromise how they currently use the road.
@Pete_Cavan I like that idea of making the triangle one way. Wasn't sure what you were referring to at first but it would actually be great use of roads and probably make for freer flowing junction.
Have any of the Bray residents who don't generally use the N11 bus suggested anything which can be done which would benefit them? Even in their wildest dreams, do they have any ideas of what could be done? Or do they think that not doing anything will see things get better rather than worse? The only thing which could be done for Herbert Road would involve a bridge across the river and there is nowhere that could be proposed which wouldn't see huge opposition.
Making improvements to facilitate more and faster bus servives will ultimately benefit everyone, less cars on the road means less traffic for those who continue to use their car to contend with. I think more for buses should be done at J7. I'd make the triangle there one way with a general traffic and a bus lane on each side. Basically, one way towards the N11 between the two roundabouts, one way northbound up by Hills, and one way southbound on the third side where the cycle lanes are. Then create a bus only link from the roundabout on Southern Cross Road at Supervalue onto the road behind and you could then provide a bus serving the residential areas which get onto the N11 faster than a car.
Herbert Road has a connection to a dual carriageway that should be closed tomorrow. The church and the hairpin bend that e is absolutely no way for a dual carriageway to connect with any road. Its insanity, and the residents should take that into account in their complaining.
The problem is, if a link road was created somewhere to alleviate that situation as part of the upgrade, the same residents would still complain. Something has to give somewhere.
yeah, it's seriously kicking off on the Bray facebook groups about this. I've no strong opinions on it TBH but they are right in that all the cars that currently use Herbert Road will now have to use the already congested J6 or J7 and then go through the town. There's not much benefit for Bray residents who don't generally use the N11 bus services so it's understandable they're complaining.
I see a local Councillor is organising a meeting to 'rally opposition' to the closure of Herbert rd and Enniskerry junctions and also the removal of roundabout at Hills garage for traffic controlled junction.
Like with the previous proposals, when pragmatic solutions are suggested people still aren't happy and end up delaying or cancelling much needed infrastructure improvements.
Everyone gives out about the traffic congestion, yet when they bring out plans, people don't appreciate the constraints that engineers and designers are working too.,
What is obvious about that??
What a hilarious question, obviously the answer is no, which is why we have an incredibly crappy bodge job pretending to be suburban rail. Maybe when the line erodes into the sea they will consider it, despite Wicklow supposed to be an area of considerable population growth in the next 30 years.
Some nice ideas on the latest scheme. I like the offline cycle route from j6 to Ballywaltrim lane. Often thought that access from the current hard shoulder to Ballywaltrim should've been done a long time ago. There's a little path there but it's only navigable by mountain bike. Still not on board with the cycle lane sbound on N11 to Glenview when there is a much more viable Quill Road alternative already in place.
Would like to hear more on the rationale for lights instead of roundabout at Hills Garage. Very busy spot from 3 of the 4 directions. Lights will regulate a lot of the current trouble some routes currently have getting onto the roundabout at busy times, but at the expense of other queuing.
I like what they're trying to do with the new section of road on the 20bends.
Little bit on the main scheme, interesting words from the councillor. Only €2.5m to progress the scheme to next stage but funding is being held back. Seems he could be onto something. Very small money in the grand scheme of things.
actually looking again at the maps, between Herbert Rd and J7 there's just one driveway and they're proposing to provide access to it from the back, so that route could be bollarded off. Between J8 and J9 it's just field accesses after the cottages so possibly they'll just close those gates off and give the farmer some cash to improve farm road access from the lanes behind. I'm not sure I've ever seen those gates being used anyway.
