How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
If I recall correctly the pay deal was championed by the Unions taking into account the additional supports paid universally (energy bill credits, additional children’s allowance etc). I expect there will be further similar and more generous one off payments announced in October given the nature of the budget surplus.
The Unions should have gone back in for a better deal last time around and their falling membership hopefully forces them to come out with more favourable terms this time. With full employment the number of vacancies in the public sector which can’t be filled is remarkable. I think we will see a better deal this time as a result
I will analyse the pay changes since inflation began to rise
CPI
2020 = -0.3% mild deflation
2021 = 2.4%
2022 = 7.8%
CPI in Dec 2016 = 100
CPI in Jan 2021 = 101.5 (this just shows how low and stable inflation was)
CPI July 2023 = 120.2
So since 1-Jan 2021, just over 30 months, inflation has been 18.5%
Building Momentum, negotiated during COVID in 2020, cover 1-Jan 2021 to end 2022
1-Oct-21 = +1%
1-Feb-22 = +1% local / sectoral bargaining fund
1-Oct-22 = +1%
BM extension/adjustment
2-Feb-22 = +3%
1-Mar-23 = +2%
So as of today, the pay increases have been +1+1+1+3+2 = 8.25%
That means real wages have fallen by 10% over the 2.5 years.
That's not a what a 4 day week is meant to be. It's a reduction in work hours while keeping/improving productivity
Read the thread going back to last year. Then you'll see for yourself who voted for it.
I know I didn't. Something I was also heavily criticised for.
Well then who the hell voted for the deal, overwhelmingly!?
There are two things that could be true:
1) The majority of the CS/PS is so financially illiterate that they don't understand that a 3% pay rise in a 6% inflationary environment is a pay cut in real terms. (This might be true; I do believe, broadly speaking, people in Ireland aren't great with finances)
2) People who are quite comfortable and have long service in the PS/CS saw it as something they could live with, a small drop in real term income, because I'm alright Jack.
I'm not just referring to Pre-95ers here there are many more in the 95-13 bracket who are happy out also.
You two pre-95ers fighting the good fight need to have a chat with your peers because fundamentally we agree, the last deal was crap the next deal will likely be crap so why are people voting for it?
Rubbish.
I'm one of those, and I was one of the most vocal here last year arguing the case for the lower paid grades, but got absolutely lambasted for even suggesting they should get a higher percentage, as it would narrow the gap and "devalue" those in higher grades.
Those arguing against solution was "tell the lower grades to work harder and get promoted, then they'll earn more."
These are the people who are screwing over their younger colleagues - not the pre-95ers like me - who actually came up in the CS when being part of a union meant looking out for the best interest of all, not just myself or those at my grade.
That solidarity certainly doesn't exist anymore - that's if they even join a Union - though non-members are happy to take any deals negotiated by them.
That's my experience of it. Like it or not. You'd be better off having this conversation with some of your similarly experienced colleagues.
And you can see it here with some of the other posters you're arguing with here, they are happy to be "poorer". Classic case of pulling the ladder up after themselves.
I'm a pre-95 and am totally the opposite of your lazy generalisation.
I don't see why anyone, of any age, would be happy to become permanently poorer. Remember that the erosion in real terms of pay also applies to pension, and us pre-95s don't have a DSP pension to fall back on. It would be politically unacceptable to do to the DSP OAP what politicians are doing to the pensions of public servants.
I believe a lot of nurses currently work 3 12-hour shifts a week?
Teachers can hardly complain about not getting a 4 day week given the holidays they get.
A 4 day week isn't, and shouldn't, be an excuse to not pay the proper rate for the job.
I can already do a 4 day week, it just means a 20% pay cut!
Illegal to lower the price based on generating. They are legally obliged to act independetly. The fact ESB own them is utterly irrelevant. They made €0 profit in the residential side. That's a fact. Zero gouging happening by EI.
ESB own Electric Ireland so they have a lot to do with selling electricity to customers.
Yeah, removing flexi from APs was one of the little vindictive moves that PER love so much. No financial cost associated with it but they did away with it anyway.
It feels like they want to actively discourage serving HEOs from seeking promotion, having to give up a day's leave, flexitime, and flexi leave is very family-unfriendly.
Did I say it wasn't?
There are quite a few in the PS/CS on the old contracts with the better pension, near retirement, house bought (possibly mortgage paid) who are happy to not rock the boat and tip along as things stand. They are more comfortable and can absorb the cost of living increases.
They are screwing over their younger colleagues and making the PS/CS an unattractive place to work. Inadvertently, they are making life harder for themselves when roles aren't filled.
It's not at all unrealistic. What is your basis for claming it is?
Taxes rise in line with inflation. The government is running a massive surplus but you are calling for our standard of living to be eroded yet again.
It's totally aggravating how bet down and plain thick a lot of people are.
So in other words, a pay cut in real terms yet again.
What exactly is your problem with people who cycle to work or bring their lunch to work, or both? And what exactly has this got to do with public pay talks? Clearly, I've been taking up large amounts of space rent-free in your head for years now, so you might want to think about letting go, perhaps?
As generally happens, you seem to have missed the point slightly that it's not all about me.
The cream of the private sector in national cyber security at that level? Probably not
Unless the post is for Robert Watt, in which case DPER will be all
You’re not suggesting that even the substantially increased pay rates didn’t attract the cream of the private sector?
Surely it was an open competition and attracted talent from all over the world? You're not suggesting a Civil Service body would run sham interviews?
Ah yes the director which they had to massively increase pay to get the right person and then the "right person" was the sitting deupty director.🙄. DPER won't be falling for that again....
A four day week is already available under worksharing and has been for over 20 years, so it is possible. I work a four day week, Monday to Thursday.
Anyone can apply for it. The difference is its pro-rata pay.
Garda members already have a 4 day week, granted 12 hour days. Its currently in process to move back to the 5 day roster, not sure how that will go. No reason why the Garda Staff couldn't go to 4 day weeks, however I'd worry on 1 or 2, literally 1 maybe 2, departments getting their work load done in 4 days without adding additional staff.
There really is no reason why the Engineer and Account grade 2 shouldn't get Flexitime other than the pay is a bit above HEO. Some might be managers but its not designed for that.
You potentially have an inbuilt grade already used in the Civil Service to target at people.
More data:
Here is growth in average earnings by sector, since 2018:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq42022finalq12023preliminaryestimates/
Your last point is so on the button.
In public service IT staff are in the Clerical Officer pay scale. Seems to be from back in the early IT days when IT was done by people transitioning over from data entry and clerical roles.
It's a new field, still, and it's frustrating to see how it's ignored in the public sector.
Very true.
For an external applicant to be a GM in the public service they start at the very bottom of the pay scale.
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