How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
The budget surplus is primarily down to about 10 companies corporate tax receipts that isn't guaranteed to be that high in the future. I'd love a 15% rise in pay because of it , but it would not be prudent. The bulk of it should be spent on infrastructure. Also our pay is of course just one area of what the government do with their budget.
Anyone who suggests the current massive tax surpluses should fund permanent public sector pay change needs their head examined. It makes no sense to do it that way. With an election in early 2025. A decent deal being negotiated is not unrealistic.
I disagree, I am sick and tired of taxpayers money being ploughed into infrastructure. Year after year money is pouring down the drain. The metro project, children's hospital, I could go on. For once, let's put government spending to the back of the queue because they make a complete boll*x of it year in year out. Give the worker money back in their pocket, whether it's through the budget and national pay deal.
I think these pay talks should look beyond just the inflation / low salary for new entrants argument. There are staff shortages across the public sector, at all levels. Quite simply, the pay is no longer competitive. With those famous 'gold-plated' pensions long gone, there just isn't enough of a draw for quality candidates.
If we want a high standard of public services then we need to pay to attract the best workers.
So, for me, I'd love to see 12% immediately.
Also, interesting perspective on things. More UK perspective, obviously.
Wed all love 12% but it's not realistic.
It makes absolutely no sense to accept a sigificant reduction in living standards when their is a budget surplus. Why should public servant's be expected to accept a worse live while private sector are enjoying the opposite? Public servant's needs to start waking up and fighting for decent pay and conditions.
Sorry what??? How are private sector enjoying the opposite?? You think corporate profit is being funneled down to ordinary workers? Hahah I have a few bridges for sale if you would like to buy one.
Where are you pulling 12% from as the minimum we should accept?
The surplus is a moot point. It could last 10 years, it could be gone next year. I Lt would be crazy to make long term ongoing commitments with it. You're just ignoring that.
There enjoying better pay raises, more online with inflation.
I don't know, where am I pulling 12% minimum from? I dont rememeber saying the figure should be 12%. The surplus isn't a moot point. The money is there and it will be there until it is used. It would be crazy to accept a massive reduction in living standards while energy companies, banks and the government are making record breaking profits.
Literally just had to read the first few lines, 30% getting no increase. 70% getting rises of up to 11%. Look it doesn't matter , we won't agree on it anyway. I hope we get as much as possible haha enjoy your weekend.
Apologies on 12%, got confused with another poster.
Do we work for the energy companies or banks? Last time I checked, the government doesn't make a profit. The surplus is temporary, it's fiscally irresponsible to make long term commitments with it.
I couldn't give a **** if we don't work for them. I've had enough of being told energy companies telling everyone they had to drastically raises prices due to war in Ukraine and then tell us about their record breaking profits. You don't know if the surplus is temporary either. Make hay while the sun shines.
It doesn't have to be a long term commitment, it could easily be a significant one off payment as well.
Bord Gais Energy made a 30 million euro loss so far this year.
Electric Ireland made no profit for 2022 on residential consumers.
Prices had to be raised. How much did you want them to lose? I agree there is greed but point it at the right places.
https://www.bordgaisenergy.ie/news/financial-statement-news-270723
Does that €30m loss cover their €300m investment in two new hydrogen plants?
Maybe it doesn't, but it would be very strange for the Bord Gais to make a loss purely on a day-to-day basis when their parent company in the UK is swimming in profit.
You're confusing suppliers and generators. Under EU legislation, the two must be kept separate.
The UK is moot. BGE should make a profit here. The price cap in the UK is how suppliers make bank.
I dunno what your ESB reference is. They are Irish and have nothing to do with selling electricity to consumers.
Brain freeze, meant Bord Gais, not ESB.
As I said, does the £30m loss account for the £300m investment?
I have not gone through their accounts, i have no idea how much of that is included in those accounts.
I do know they lost €60 million on the retail residential side. The new plants have zero impact on that figure.
You're quietly ignoring electric Ireland made €0 profit in 2022 on the residential side i.e. they are not making profits on residential customers.
Prices are higher because of hedging. It's really that simple. Why would a company decide to make bigger loses in one sector? It makes no sense.
Income tax receipts are up 8% YoY. Would that not be a decent gauge of private sector pay rises?
I'd love to see Flexitime and Leave for grades higher than HEO. It's a benefit that would attract people too.
They get flexitime but not leave(they have six weeks holidays so I'm unsure how much more they need)
It depends. A lot of grades higher than HEO would be fixed hours. Though it may appear they work flexible hours!
But attracting staff to public service isn't just about core pay I guess
And yet here you are 14 years on, still hopping on your trusty cycle, with briefcase and packed lunch (can't be spending money on lunches in local businesses now can we) peddling away to work with such egregious conditions put on you.
There's plenty of jobs out there, go do something else.
Or is it, as I suspect, you are still better off for your skillset where you are and would be unable to improve your lot much elsewhere. Smart move by the Government, knowing that the staff like you would remain while getting you to make a proper contribution to the pension.
Never waste a good crisis.
You have played directly in the Government of the day's hands.
Interesting:
As an aside, the AHCPS passed a motion at the last delegate conference, to support the campaign for a four day working week.
One of the reasons I've heard that it was raised (anecdotally) is that this is due to APs and above not having access to flexi leave. It is recognised disincentive for those who wish to progress beyond HEO (who have 29 days leave, rising to 30 after 5 years).
Flexi leave can add up to as much as an extra 19.5 days per year, (52 weeks = 13 flexi periods @ 1.5 days each). But important to note, flexi leave days are not extra days off. The time has to be worked up first.
If your in a senior management position on 90k you can't be missing 10 weeks a year(my opinion). What private sector role would allow that? Plently will apply regardless...
Very interesting alright:
"Since 2010 public sector wage rates have risen more slowly than in the private sector. As a result while some lower-qualified public sector workers are today possibly paid a bit more than in the private sector, quite a number of middle-ranking and more senior workers are now paid a bit less than in the private sector."
And the conclusion seems to be we will need to improve public sector wages to sustain public services (not to mind improving them).
It's very obvious . The guards can't retain or recruit, we have 2 navy ships at sea now with 3 sitting in the docks for want of personnel to man them. Public jobs arent attractive anymore in a era of full employment. Especially with the crap post 2013 pension scheme
Standard APs starting off are not getting 90k a year. Also there are other grades like Account and Engineer grades 2 grades who won't be getting 90k a year but don't get flexi either.
The time is worked up and it's a benefit. Senior managers in private sector may be getting far more benefits.
Certainly not the most pressing issue but if the Civil Service is an having issues attracting people it's something that could be looked at.
Have negotiations started, i think with the levels of inflation over the last few years the Public Service would need a pay rise to help with the cost of living. Wages standing still against the backdrop of high inflation means these public servants would be worse off financially.
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