all who stay silent, all who can not decide, all who 'are not interested in politics', all who say 'it is not that conclusive', and absolutely all who support their fascist/nazi mafia regime.
I may have taken you up wrong and apologies if I have...all russians deserve great hardship because of the actions of their government?
The posters that are very pro Ukranian are very quick to update if things are going bad too. This thread is near real time in terms of updates good or bad. When the damn blew, when prigozhin coup collapsed, when Russia attacks the power plant, it is up here on this thread almost instantaneously from the mostly strongly pro Ukranian posters. This thread is absolutey fine. There is no distortion of information caused by where sympathies lie. It’s one of the most insidious, disingenuous arguments that has arisen over the last 10 years in the wake of brexit and trump and this horrific war and is straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook. This false concern that everything has to balanced by opposing views and faux concern for free speech. It’s the height of horse shite and is completely and utterly disingenuous. It’s straight out bare faced platforming of lies to suit agendas and nothing to do with balance.
well, everyone here knows who Kermit supports. Same was Timmysomething. Hes gone now.
The leaked documents from the US months ago did state the counter offensive would likely not succeed.
They are rarely wrong.
most likely the offensive will be officially called off by the end of Aug with no net gains for Ukraine, cant see how they can do any kind of one punch at this stage, they would need to keep reserves , and Russia arent leaving any open doors.
Agreed but it hardly matters whether as a Russian citizen you are aware of what is going down and are sitting on your hands or whether as a Russian citizen you have taken all the state propaganda at face value and agree with the SMO. Or are Russian expat living in the EU and either keeping the head down or out marching in support.
Both groups are equally culpable and responsible for what their state is engaged in, both individually and collectively.
People can make excuses for them, but that's all they are, excuses. Excuses that don't wash and they deserve great hardship to be brought on them.
While it sounds grim, I do think a semi frozen conflict means an eventual Russia defeat.
Ukraine are very unlikely to give up, they know they can't. It'd mean no freedom for themselves and future generations. On the other side the weak Russian economy is under massive pressure, and there will be continuous social and political discontent in the country. That situation can't continue indefinitely. It's only a few weeks since the regime narrowly came through a coup. As long as the war continues there's going to be an increasing risk of an uprising from the public, elements of the military or something led by political rivals. What the final spark would be we won't know until it happens, but Russia won't continue to devote the effort it is currently giving to this war. It might take another year, maybe even longer, but Russia will fail if it doesn't alter course. I presume Putin knows this but isn't quite sure how to get off the hook. Maybe he's hoping a Trump victory next year might change the West's position.
I've repeatedly expressed doubts about Ukraine's counter-offensive and military situation here, I've yet to be labelled a Putinbot.
Likely because my support is genuine. Unfortunately some posters have come in here with a less than genuine agenda, and while they may not directly admit support for Putin (or against Ukraine), they manifest it in other ways, concern-trolling, contrarianism and other red flags.
On a side note it's an horrific war, atrocities are committed against Ukrainians daily, people are being blown to pieces, it's highly emotive. We aren't robots, it's only natural that people are strongly supportive of Ukraine and emotional towards the perpetrators.
People pretending that Ukraine are not losing an incredible amount of men and materials are not helping them, they are actually doing the opposite.
The offensive is plainly not going well and being adjusted. Hopefully that adaption will reap rewards but it does signal that the conflict will go on in to next year and probably 2025. That's a good thing for Russia.
It has the men and is willing to burn through them, Ukraine does not.
It benefits Russia because it allows further reinforcement of positions.
It benefits Russia because it means that the Ukrainian refugees that have left for the West will be even Less likely to return, Ukraine long term is finished if that happens, regardless of the war outcome, never mind the economic implications of the war for Ukraine.
Outside of America, who in the West has the capacity to sustain a war. Poland is ramping up, Germany is accelerating winding down but talking up its army and future spending plans.
There are big regional threats to Western Europe in a circle from West Africa up to and Russia and the main existential threat China.
China can look at the West and see it struggling to resource Ukraine. It is taking succour from that. It sees no interest in rebuilding Western armed capacity, there isn't, token gestures, that's all. Can the West keep up with the demand of a real war for a few more years, doubtful, pity that it was so tight fisted from the start and didn't view this conflict in its longer term threats and implications.
There are many ways this war can be won or lost, at least victory claimed and viewed as such by many.
Unless the West changes and becomes serious then it must live with the consequences long term.
It's actually going the other way. Short term thinking in everything now.
On the front it's pretty much become a frozen conflict. Without massive air support i dont see what Ukraine are supposed to do Urozhaine was supposed to have 'fallen' 2 weeks ago. It's a tiny village. Still fighting there. Robotyne has been contested for nearly 2 months. Still not done. Horrific losses there for Ukraine. They are trying to go at huge minefields and defence lines with no air.
Apparently Russian artillery losses are huge, but we've been hearing that for 18 months now.
Unless NATO is really committed to actually winning this then it's not going anywhere. It's turned into the Somme, well it did that a while ago.They need enormous amounts of air support and mine clearers and the west is too busy pretending they care instead of actually caring. Why is there no M1150 for example?
I'll get sh it for this and called a vatnik probably, but it's obviously a frozen front line right now.
Too many mines and mobiks in trenches. Plus KA-52 mostly operating unhindered, although we do get them a bit.
Interesting graphic from Visual capitalist showing the decline in the Russian economy this year.
I think it is more that it is obvious that certain posters only post negative news about Ukraine and positive news for Russia.
Posters get called Russiabots etc.. in here for suggesting more or less the same. It's like an alternative reality at times where unless you pretend everything is rosy for Ukraine you must be hoping for their defeat. It's absolute nonsense.
But you're happy to post that Kupiansk is about to fall despite there being absolutely nothing verified from social media about it and Russia not even close to the outskirts of the place? Right. So unbiased. 🙄
Agree but I think the situation is even more grim than that to be honest. Ukraine just doesn't have the resources, either manpower or equipment, to match the expectations many seem to have. It's playing out as I expected. They can defend but unable to breakthrough any Russian defensive lines. They need a lot more from the west.
Not glee. Just reporting what is verifiable mostly from social media. If Ukraine had a serious breakthrough I'd be saying it. They've not had any breakthrough in months so there is not much to say.
Doesn't surprise me. The Russians have adapted. Beyond incompetent in the early days and not so early days, but now they're dug in like ticks, with lines of defences like mines which need few people to work, getting supplies from China like drones and western support isn't coming nearly quick enough or in enough numbers. There's not a lot of movement on the front lines and neither are making much by way of gains, but I fear if western support doesn't increase it's more likely Ukraine's front will collapse than Russia's(in spots anyway). It's Ukraine's defence that has a lot less depth.
as John Sweeney, a man with zero time for Russia and even less for putin noted today:
https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1689911186794405888
Maybe the Russians abroad who are against the war have family back home. Would you speak out in that scenario knowing your family could be harmed? I have no doubt there are Russians who support the war as they are hoodwinked by the Kremlin propaganda. Just as there are some Americans Citizens who always support their own wars. Yet as we see in America there are plenty who have spoken out against wars such as Vietnam and Iraq. The difference as we all know is, that what whatever faults America has, you have the freedom to dissent. With this in mind, the Russian equivalent of Chomsky would be lucky to see his 60th birthday, unlike Noam who is 90 plus
While there does seem to be Russian attacks mounting in the area and civilian evacuations.
Kupiansk "about to fall" is your opinion and absolutely nothing more. Wagner took 9 months and 10s of thousands of deaths to take Bakhmut. And the Russians still have to pass several settlements and natural river barriers to even reach the outskirts of Kupiansk. So no. It is not about to fall.
They're getting civilians out because they will get caught in the cross fire and know the Russian's will target them. It's not about to fall, the Ukrainians are preparing for a fight there.
I can't help but think that you say that with glee. How about posting 'Robotyne falls to Ukraine' in the same breath.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-new-08-11-23/index.html
And this is after their central bank intervened to prop up the rubble, I mean ruble.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/rouble-hits-over-16-month-low-under-fx-demand-pressure-2023-08-09/
Ruble continuing to slide, normally there's a pull-back but it's still going. 98.4 to the USD today. One of the main state TV propagandists losing his mind over it.
Looks like Kupiansk is about to fall to the Russians. Mandatory evacuations have been ordered by the Ukranian authorities.
What I meant was that every country/society attempts to silence opposing voices using fear/coercion/intimidation. This is the "tactic" I was referring to that was similar.
I didn't mean that they all used the same methods to do so, or used the same severity to achieve their goal of keeping the dissident people in line. some are somewhat benign and some are, as we've seen, horrific. I was not drawing any equivalence in the severity, the barbarity or the righteousness.
I can't make it clearer than that
Yes it is, and shows just how the criminals took over the state. Even Yeltsin was unable to control them, and they laughed at him when he called a meeting with them asking them to contribute some of their cash ( robbed from the state) for the upkeep of the state. Then Putin arrived, but he used a different approach. He arrested the biggest Oligarch of them all, Khodorkovsky. Put him on trial in public, and gave him a hefty jail sentence. After that, he called another meeting with the oligarchs' and informed them of the new rules. Business as usual, but 50% directly paid to him, Putin. ( I'm not quite sure what the exact % he extracted, TBH) Or else, a long stay in Lefortovo Prison. Needless to say, they paid up. To this day, many Russians follow him because they see him as the savior from much worse. But at heart, Putin is a criminal, and he's been proving it since his election, which was in itself a blood stained affair. And his and his fellow criminals continued theft from Russia, has meant that ordinary Russians struggle to live in a police state.
You actually specifically said:
"While these outcomes pale in comparison to what happens in Russia or North Korea etc, it's still indicative of similar tactics being used."
Now you contradict yourself by saying :
"I was not saying that all are equal in their methods, outcomes or tactics."
But you did say it.
Your words could be interpreted as attempting to draw a false moral and political equivalence between what is happening in Russia and what happens in democratic countries with constitutional liberties. Multiple posters picked up on that.
So if you do understand the words, maybe reflect on that before drawing such equivalences. There are often posts on this thread pushing Russian propaganda, some of it very obvious, some of it insidious.
Earlier you said "You would want to be an idiot to think I was."
Well, you should have seen some of the earlier propaganda being peddled on this thread to realise why on this thread that doesn't carry as much weight as you might think.
But this is the bit that I'm confused by:
I was simply saying that coercion, fear and intimidation are used by practically every government/society to keep people in line.
Well you also spoke of "...people admonishing you, disowning you, discrediting you or your lifes work or insulting you" - so which is it? TBH you can at least appreciate why your position is a big hard to grasp cos it basically encompasses everything while being a very broad comment. Are you talking about governments coercing citizens, or the social consensus?
You say it's a throwaway comment, that's fine, but it has been unclear what angle you're coming from in terms of a non-Russian perspective.
Okay, I don't see any evidence of the Irish government systematically doing this to "keep people" in line, certainly not in the way you are suggesting. So it sounds like a baseless personal opinion.
The Russian regime is very different, and does use these tactics on a systematic basis to silence opposition, the press, to curb freedoms and so on.
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