I get the concern by some on the cluster bombs issue.
I think there are 2 types of people who have reservations. Ones who are now jumping up and down calling USA and Ukraine war criminals for this and would never have even thought of saying a word against Russia who have been using them all along, even against civilian areas.
And I think there are some people who have genuine concerns about their use and dont think Ukraine should stoop as low to Russias level by using them.
Im not sure about it myself, I guess it would have to be really worth it in regards to helping to drive the Russians out.
I don't know how true this is but ive seen a couple of reports saying that the ones they are sending will have a much lower failure rate. If that is true and they are kept out of any populated areas hopefully any danger to civilians will be kept to a minimum.
Looks like, just when they thought it was safe to go back in the water.....sooner or later, one of these missiles will get through. I imagine that it will work wonders for the " Crimean Property's for sale" Auctioneer's.
These are Ukrainian towns and cities with Ukrainians living in them.
The correct analogy would be you hurting your own kids just so you could hurt the person that hurt them.....
Like crashing your own car into that persons house while you have your own kids in the back seat 🤷🏻♂️
Well, when the Russians are using White Phosphorus shells, that's the red line for me, everything that is available, no matter how unacceptable it may be to civilized Country's, should be used on them. They have put them selves beyond any kind of "Humanitarian" consideration.
such an innocent view..
if you broke into my house, raped someone i love and robbed my kids... I would use anything on you to evicerate you..
This is still in the rumour sphere as no reliable source I usually follow has mentioned it yet, but OP himself is speculating on the source, will see if its got clout to it later, still, interesting if true
Because they are not the evil monsters that the Russians are.
A bit much what? These are conventional weapons and Russia has already used them. If these help to kill & maim larger numbers of Russian military that remain on Ukrainian territory, they'll have served their purpose. You hardly expect an invaded country to be gentlemanly about these things? If they help to serve the purpose of furthering the repulsion of Russian forces more speedily, well maybe many more Ukrainian lives will be saved. I'm sure you'd want that?
That was a bit much.
My one concern with them using cluster bombs is the potential for unexploded munitions to end up littering the Ukrainian landscape after the war. Would hate to see a potential landmine type situation where kids are picking them up ten years down the line and blowing themselves up.
Russia might be using them already but I suppose the last thing you want to be doing is adding even more unexploded bombs to the landscape.
I think you're objecting in the wrong place. Take your complaints to Moscow and see how far you get. Hopefully your demise won't be too slow and painful.
Russians mistakenly(?) blasted the Kadyrovs
It's not that, it's just the latest putinbot talking point whataboutery while ignoring their use by russia directly against civiiians (i.e. war crimes).
It also makes it really easy to spot them now.
They reckon russia produces shells 10 times more than what my source says. What is certain is that russia can't get the shells to the front in enough quantities ever and they're grossly inaccurate compared to the Ukrainians.
Yes.
Looks like the kirsch bridge was targeted earlier today,
No damage reported
Estimates of Russia's artillery shell production capacity vary. British military think-tank RUSI put it at 1.7 million shells per year prior to the war and 2.5 million per year currently. That's 200,000 per month, which is way beyond anything the combined West can do in the short-term. USA is aiming for a mere 80,000 per month by 2028.
Nobody knows the true size of their pre-existing stockpile. Even Russia probably don't know for sure. The Soviets were hoarders, they didn't throw things away, they had massive stockpiles dotted around the USSR in salt mines.
It was widely reported in Dec 2022 that Russia was almost out of shells and were using 40 y/o ammo with high failure rates. That's 7 months ago. They've continued firing tens of thousands of shells per day in the 7 months since that article. They are down from their peak of 50,000 per day but they are still averaging over 10,000 per day.
If Russia had shown some restraint and left their cluster munitions at home we might be having a very different conversation, but they didn't, so they're just going to have to accept that they're going to be on the receiving end now.
Could cluster munitions be used to clear minefields
I'm a Napalm kinda guy meself but sure we'll go with the clusters. They kill orcs and that's what matters.
Probably because the targets Ukraine would be launching against would be their own cities and towns. The urge to resist invasion will quickly dry up if the army starts hitting its own population without due caution.
They're an awful weapon but it's a bit weird, and rich, that having seen months of Russian use of these things met with silence - suddenly Ukraine should be ashamed to fight fire with fire, all to clear out some dug-in russian trench locations.
Trenches that appear to exist as a bit of a last line of defence between the south of Ukraine, and Crimea.
tariff the russians until reparations are paid up and keep sanctions in place until they start acting civilized
Ukrainians can do what they want in Ukraine in defence of their sovereign nation, in my opinion. They are an independent nation, with the agency that confers.
Because it would potentially be a war crime first and foremost. Secondly, there a difference in danger from UXO in a city (where people will be living) and UXO in a field.
Cluster munitions are vile horrible weapons, they should ever be needed.
But you know what? The Russians could leave. They could go tomorrow, they could go this very minute and return to their actual country and put an end to this monstrous nonsense they they put upon Ukraine. They could stop shelling Ukrainian cities, they could stop murdering and raping citizens under their “care”. They could stop stealing children and go the f*ck HOME, and put an end to all of this.
It is on the Russians and not the desperate nation defending themselves for the fact that these vile weapons are in play at all. They don’t need to be be used if Russia would just get a hint and do the right thing.
Why shouldn't the Ukrainians also use them in cities too? - after all the Russians did.
There is one country swinging it’s Mickey about nuking countries and it’s not Ukraine.
If cluster bombs help Ukraine free their land from barbarian raping scumbags then bring them on.
We might as well just crack open the nukes then🙄
If Ukraine want to use cluster munitions on the entrenched Frontlinse (fields, not towns or cities), I don't see an issue.
Russia have shown no restraint or care for anyone since they illegally invaded a sovereign country.
Fight fire with fire.
Yeah but cruise missiles and bombs and tanks are like totally justifiable!!!
This is war, none of it is justified but it is what it is.
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