We've had a poster state the kinzhal missile is just a ballastic missile but state a patriot system cannot shoot one down. 🤷♂️
When confronted it's a debate about PAC-2 vs PAC-3 missiles used🤷♂️
You seem to have a very hard time admitting when wrong.
The majority of Nato countries or the Eu have not increased their military spending,
Why ???
The Eu and Nato countries will move on and won't see Russia as any threat after what they have seen in Ukraine,
Life will eventually move on this is the EU
That was your claim starting all of this. This has proven to be completely false so you are wrong. It does not matter how much you want to twist and spin, you are still wrong.
Take that for what it is.
I could see how if you could detect it and it was coming near or right at you the PMS would have the chops to intercept it, however by the skin of its teeth that might have been.
Questioner: I just wanted to double check, you did confirm that a Patriot downed this Kinzhal missile?
Gen. Ryder: Correct.
Questioner: Did I hear that right?
Questioner: Was this a U.S.-provided Patriot or one from the Dutch or Germans?
Gen. Ryder: Yeah, in terms of those kinds of operational details, I’d refer you to the Ukrainians.
Questioner: You can’t confirm if the U.S. Patriots are now over there?
Gen. Ryder: The U.S. Patriot is over there.
Questioner: It is? So you’re confirming that …
Gen. Ryder: I’m confirming U.S. Patriot system is in Ukraine, but in terms of which specific battery they employed, whether it was a U.S.-provided, Dutch-provided, I’d refer you to the Ukrainians.
[…]
Questioner: Also, I just had a quick follow-up on the Kinzhal. Is this the first time or the first intercept of a hypersonic missile in combat? And do you have the date of the intercept?
Gen. Ryder: I don’t, and again, I’m not going to get into the specifics or trying to characterize it, other than, again, to say we can confirm that the Ukrainians took down this Russian missile with a Patriot missile defense system.
What a cluster **** as the yanks would say. The Russians spend months making minimal gains in Bakhmut, then in the space of a day or so the Ukranians make 3 kms. I think the head of Wagner knows his outfit is being set up to be the fall guy for Bakhmut. I think some in the Russian MOD now want Ukraine to win in Bakhmut to weaken Prigozhin for good. Vladimir himself might want this too. I also believe that things are going to reach a tipping point in Russia by the end of the summer. It maybe that those close to Vlad will try to oust him by that stage.
You say fall guy and I just think
Which you know, completely tracks Russia.
The Russians must have an actual fetish about sustaining heavy losses for minimal gains, like it's a badge of honour, like abject suffering is the only real way to live and get things done. Well, they've been getting their wish in this war. Their army has only moved forward in one spot since the end of last Summer, and those gains have been metres per day over eight months. It's pathetic. You know it would wound Putin deeply if Ukrainian forces were able to reverse those hard-fought gains in Bakhmut within a short amount of time. A stinging psychological blow.
The diagram - in it's original form - was a speculated blueprint of the Kinzhal, several years old. (It's not a real blueprint for obvious reasons.)
When it was apparent that whatever fell was too small to be a Kinzhal, someone (for whatever reason) crudely doctored the original diagram to put something of the approximate size and shape inside the diagram. It fooled some less technical posters. From an engineering perspective however it is absurd, you can't just put something where an engine and fuel tank would be and say "see, it fits".
I don't claim to identify what was photographed. I don't claim any great knowledge of the Kinzhal, certainly not what it looks like inside. I view the claims with skepticism. But I don't discount the possibility that one was shot down.
On this topic I see many people with little knowledge of missile construction (or engineering in general) confidently identifying things they haven't got a clue about, or pulling random doctored photos off twitter to prove one another right/wrong. It's unproductive.
Really interesting news of a Friday evening. A direct hit on target outside of himars range with the help of a long range decoy.
Remember they have different munitions could have been JADAM too ,
I agree the blueprint scales must be off, but the engine and fuel are in the normal places, with the warhead at the front, looks easily small enough to fit in the front section outer shell, not sure I get this point?
Also let's say this is a piece of propaganda by Ukraine, why wouldn't they just fabricate a Kinzhal nose cone? Why would they go to the effort of creating something that doesn't look like the outer part of the missile?
There's a third possibility that it's an Iskander warhead, and so is the one found in Sept last year, but having seen some limited pics of Iskander warheads, they don't appear to match up.
Taking the last few sentences the actual video was posted a few days back,
Which is exactly what was said,
But the story has now dropped off it's gone from patriots intercepted a kinzhal and a few individuals trying to doctor the evidence to support it,this all started on a single social media account and got rapidly parroted around as fact where it couldn't be challenged because people became instant experts on a missle that's not hypersonic as claimed and the patriot missle systems,
Again your wrong ,
And yet the basic knowledge of what actually happens when a patriot missle intercepts another missle it non existent,
People are taking what they read on Twitter and not having an concept of what actually being claimed
That they used the decoy might suggest it's something more valuable so they wanted to ensure it got it's target. Just speculating optimistically.
In the original photo without Klitschko it shows numerous bombs and missles recovered,it could be a simple case of someone putting parts together and getting something that looks similar
Wow way out there.
Let's simplfy for all our sakes.
As you pointed out numerous times, kinzhal is just an air launched ballastic missile. Winderfaffen.... I believe the term you used was.
Ukraine has received Patriot AA. Regardless of being the PAC-2 or PAC-3 variant, do you believe Ukraine can intercept an air launched ballastic missile with the tools they have now?
I mean claims that this is edited are not in a word, wrong.
And showed up online within the last day, only after the reported strike. Completely different size cross hatch (this did not originate from the same scale technical drawing) and it's just slapped over some kind of frustum-shaped subassembly (circled in red) and there appears to have been some whitespace around the object they pasted in, you can see it excludes some line art on the frustum on both sides.
Though the size of ~1.5 meters is basically right based on the lad standing with the object. Here you can see Hitler's doppleganger work on a W80 intermediate yield US nuclear warhead, roughly the same size or smaller, and capable of a 5 to 150 kt yield (the Kinzhal being said to be capable of holding a 5 to 50kt warhead).
Of course for what little the armchairs know, it could still be accurate information poorly illustrated, and depending on how the missile disintegrated on interception could have survived where the outer casing did not.
Enlighten us please.
If it's a PAC-2 it detonates infront of the target and the shrapnel damages the missile.
PAC-3 aims for the warhead and uses kinetic energy to destroy the target.
The later is moot as you claim there's no evidence Ukraine recieved PAC-3 missiles.
So please, enlighten us. And if you can identify the debris that Ukraine claim (or the official claim - you have a history with wording) is a kinzhal missile
Indeed. My question is - if this is a warhead from something else, then what is that something else? It should be recognizable as much of the Russian arsenal isn't a secret (unlike the Kinzhal)
So far no one has positively ID'd it except for internet armchairs who've gone through Russian munitions photos and found a dumb munition that "looks the same shape" as it.
Russians don't retreat, its a punishable offence to even use the word. They make "plans"...😁
In simple terms,
Take one missles traveling at Mach 4 (4× the speed of sound)
And another missle traveling at Mach 4 + and Intercept each other,
Explain how you end up with intact missle been recovered,
Have you provided any evidence to show pac 3 patriot missles in Ukraine,
No, yet I posted the video and images showing pac 2 patriot missles in Ukraine
???
Incendiaries again??
It's unusual,
We've not seen the Ukrainians use them before,
Latest from Progozhin
It said the north of Bakhmut but that's where the Russians are???. More here
He's completely lost the plot.
Maybe Putin has left him there to die.
When does the last flight to Africa leave
Perno Ricard to stop operations in Russia
Took them long enough but in reality they weren't breaching sanctions, despite the numerous claims made that they were,
But yet people claimed they were breaching sanctions when they actually weren't,
The strike in Luhansk is interesting.
A decoy cruise missile was used, then there were several explosions in a building with a concentration of troops, and because the range is 100km, someone has jumped to the conclusion it must have been a Storm Shadow. I think that is extremely unlikely. Far more likely it was JDAM-ER, which most people haven't yet worked out can go a lot further than the official 70km - almost 3 times as far.
Someone is wondering about Shoigu's son reportedly being near the blast site.
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