If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
And ,you said West Scotland which was wrong.
So is the Clyde sub base in east Scotland or west Scotland?
Go ahead.
Murmansk to Gibraltar, the shortest ( actually only by 100km or so) and easiest route to navigate is by the west coast of Ireland.
Key word being navigate. They of course are free to navigate through the EEZ.
However, stopping over international infrastructure or conducting exercises in the Irish EEZ are very much scenarios in which Ireland is obligated to monitor and investigate, and that is inclusive of everyone, not just the Russian's, and we have a very very limited capability in doing so.
Also, a change in behaviour, which Russia is currently doing, is an activity which requires monitoring... they regularly transited the English Channel to exercise their free navigation of the seas. This has drastically reduced over the past 2 years, with more and more transits via the west coast of Ireland, which happen to stop in close proximity to underwater infrastructure, where there is no real reason to do so.
On the flip of this, European vessels of all types are harassed in the Russian EEZ's off Murmansk and Kaliningrad if they even as much slow down or deviate from a route. This is typical of the Russian belief of "one rule for thee but not for me".
So it seems it's official then, we freeload off the UK for our defence needs. Apparently this agreement has been in place since 1952.
Not really.
As we all know Nato has traditionally had a rivalry with Russia. As a result of this nato/russia rivalry Russian planes would troll the UK by travelling a route which happened to enter into Irish airspace.
Its the UKs politics attracting the problem. And its the UK forces reacting to that problem, the problem of Russians travelling along a route consistent with an attack on the UK/nato.
UK/nato is the target. So its their problem
The Tankies will be tying themselves in knots knowing that Ireland is relying on the RAF to protect Irish airspace. An increase in defence capability of the Irish Defence Forces is actually long overdue.
Anyone who demands further reductions in Irelands Defence Forces, or believes the recent Irish Defence Forces Commission report shouldn't be implemented is nothing more than a traitor.
It is the duty of the nation & elected government to properly defend the national territory.
If tomorrow Ireland says to UK theres no need for raf to enter Irish airspace, what would be the response.
Exactly. We couldnt pay them enough not to. Because its REALLY in their interest to do so.
Simple folk struggle with such nuance. And prefer to go for sensationalist headlines.
Do you not think though we should have a least the ability to monitor our airspace adequately, and I'm not talking about purchasing a squadron of F-35s. We are projected to run government surpluses of billions for the next couple of years and we can't do basic stuff like this. Embarassing IMO.
They would sit in UK airspace and wait to intercept. Quite straightforward really.
Also, seen as we are speaking about nuance, Oceanic airspace which Ireland is synonymous with "controlling" is actually a joint venture between Air Nav Ireland and NATS in the UK (i.e. it is Irish and UK controlled airspace) ... hence the name Shanwick (Shannon - Prestwick control centres).
Technically they could intercept and shootdown an aircraft under UK orders in the Oceanic control area.
So they could intercept an aircraft before or after it transits Irish airspace with little extra risk to the UK.
If Ireland wants protection, it's very much in their interest to allow RAF flights, not the other way round.
Im all for the new radar. Beyond that there are a few options which merit their own thread. None of them involve embroiling ourselves with nato. Especially not a nato staffed by Donald Mountain Dew Trump. Erdo the werdo. And the seedy Ree Mogg Tories.
Edit: Or Joe onion belt beddy Biden, for that matter.
When theres the potential of a nuke? No. Im sure the raf are quite content with the present deal. Mutually beneficial.
If this really is an act of charity to us rather than just self interest then UK certainly is charitable to us, and thus we should see evidence of other cases of UK charity in Ireland.
I thought NATO was a consensus led organisation which required all 31 members to agree a course of action? Solo runs like the Iraq war were the US & UK's own actions & not that of NATO.
And if they dont reach consensus for us?
You know due to all the infighting, and our relative unimportance.
Maybe thats why nato founder Denmark signed up to csdp.
Tankie logic: The UK is a country that poses a military threat to Ireland not Russia. Iulz.
Also Tankie: Yes plz RAF fighter jets performing intercepts, but not really because UK bad, and Russia Casper the friendly ghost. Much misunderstood.
Ireland neutral. Look over there. It Iraq.
No sleep so.
Hey Greenie, you were the last poster to bed last night at about 1am and then you were logged on here at 6.40am talking to yourself. You spent last night twitching staring at the ceiling, and it's easily known.
I've half a day's work done since we last were talking about your Operation Captain Birdseye.
If you want to get back on topic it's probably advisable, but I ain't the one that's shook.
Absolutely yes.
Very well, back on topic.
Just an aside related to the topic, I saw the other day a little video about surveillance satellites which use radar for collecting imagery. Amazing technology.
Seems it can be day or night, cloud or clear, hot or cold and these things can still make out fair quality images.
For the imagery which is a bit sht they just throw a.i. at it. And out pops the computers best approximation.
It can even see through certain light materials. Day, night, hot, cold, cloud or clear.
Dont know if its pointed at those Russian ships. But wouldnt surprise me if it was.
Synthetic aperature radar.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xvWhmY4Wkg&pp=ygUPcmFkYXIgc2F0ZWxsaXRl
if there was even a sniff of a nuke, there would be a lot done before they got close to UK or Irish airspace...
Intercepts start with either the Norwegian's or whichever rotation is on at Keflavik for Icelandic air police, and there would be 2-3 hours worth of decision time before RAF Typhoons are even scrambled... it's not like they appear out of nowhere.
Still leaves a gaping hole in Irish defence if there are any other methods of aerial attack though.
So yes,the UK are very much helping Ireland against any potential threat to the nation from the air.
And our airspace gives them reaction time for what they must assume to be the worst case scenario.
Its for their own self interest. Unless Russia has developed some strange interest in Donegal.
It is indeed embarrassing as you say and I would also say it makes us free loaders and spongers which is frankly shameful and a disgrace. There is no reason for us not to be able to carry our own weight and develop a capable defense force of our own.
It doesn't really, at all.
You do know what direction Russia is with respect to the UK and Ireland?
Planes can change direction.
Do you think Russian planes are entering Irish airspace to mess with Ireland.
And that the UK is just looking out for us, and not for themselves.
I believe we should have a capability to defend our airspace. In lieu of not having that capability, if the RAF agreement gives us the required security regardless of ulterior motive then we should be utilising it, should the need require.
edit: planes can turn, but doesn't change the fact bombers originating from Russia will be intercepted hours before a UK aircraft even leaves the tarmac and will transit UK airspace to get to Irish airspace.
I don't need to go through many channels to tell you with some degree of certainty that the pilots who fly those planes very much want ALL available options open to them in their role, and don't want any additional complications or restrictions.
The current setup is mutually beneficial, and appropriate given its a Russia vs Nato issue, not a Russia vs Ireland issue, and I'm ok with it.
Not exactly joining NATO but this certainly is a no brainer to do IMHO and just shows again how utterly unprepared we are when it comes to our own defense and security.
Ireland likely to join Nato project to protect undersea cables – The Irish Times
But what about the Tories
Tory plane bad, except when it good, but badgood. Russia plane just say hello. It nice plane. Iraq is country.
A certain someone loves them. And the 'royals'.
The love is not reciprocated.
Like you and America.
Ballyhaunis, Mayo.
Langley, Virginia! 😎
No clue 😶
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