If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
It is indeed embarrassing as you say and I would also say it makes us free loaders and spongers which is frankly shameful and a disgrace. There is no reason for us not to be able to carry our own weight and develop a capable defense force of our own.
And our airspace gives them reaction time for what they must assume to be the worst case scenario.
Its for their own self interest. Unless Russia has developed some strange interest in Donegal.
if there was even a sniff of a nuke, there would be a lot done before they got close to UK or Irish airspace...
Intercepts start with either the Norwegian's or whichever rotation is on at Keflavik for Icelandic air police, and there would be 2-3 hours worth of decision time before RAF Typhoons are even scrambled... it's not like they appear out of nowhere.
Still leaves a gaping hole in Irish defence if there are any other methods of aerial attack though.
So yes,the UK are very much helping Ireland against any potential threat to the nation from the air.
Very well, back on topic.
Just an aside related to the topic, I saw the other day a little video about surveillance satellites which use radar for collecting imagery. Amazing technology.
Seems it can be day or night, cloud or clear, hot or cold and these things can still make out fair quality images.
For the imagery which is a bit sht they just throw a.i. at it. And out pops the computers best approximation.
It can even see through certain light materials. Day, night, hot, cold, cloud or clear.
Dont know if its pointed at those Russian ships. But wouldnt surprise me if it was.
Synthetic aperature radar.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0xvWhmY4Wkg&pp=ygUPcmFkYXIgc2F0ZWxsaXRl
Absolutely yes.
Hey Greenie, you were the last poster to bed last night at about 1am and then you were logged on here at 6.40am talking to yourself. You spent last night twitching staring at the ceiling, and it's easily known.
I've half a day's work done since we last were talking about your Operation Captain Birdseye.
If you want to get back on topic it's probably advisable, but I ain't the one that's shook.
No sleep so.
Tankie logic: The UK is a country that poses a military threat to Ireland not Russia. Iulz.
Also Tankie: Yes plz RAF fighter jets performing intercepts, but not really because UK bad, and Russia Casper the friendly ghost. Much misunderstood.
Ireland neutral. Look over there. It Iraq.
And if they dont reach consensus for us?
You know due to all the infighting, and our relative unimportance.
Maybe thats why nato founder Denmark signed up to csdp.
I thought NATO was a consensus led organisation which required all 31 members to agree a course of action? Solo runs like the Iraq war were the US & UK's own actions & not that of NATO.
When theres the potential of a nuke? No. Im sure the raf are quite content with the present deal. Mutually beneficial.
If this really is an act of charity to us rather than just self interest then UK certainly is charitable to us, and thus we should see evidence of other cases of UK charity in Ireland.
Im all for the new radar. Beyond that there are a few options which merit their own thread. None of them involve embroiling ourselves with nato. Especially not a nato staffed by Donald Mountain Dew Trump. Erdo the werdo. And the seedy Ree Mogg Tories.
Edit: Or Joe onion belt beddy Biden, for that matter.
They would sit in UK airspace and wait to intercept. Quite straightforward really.
Also, seen as we are speaking about nuance, Oceanic airspace which Ireland is synonymous with "controlling" is actually a joint venture between Air Nav Ireland and NATS in the UK (i.e. it is Irish and UK controlled airspace) ... hence the name Shanwick (Shannon - Prestwick control centres).
Technically they could intercept and shootdown an aircraft under UK orders in the Oceanic control area.
So they could intercept an aircraft before or after it transits Irish airspace with little extra risk to the UK.
If Ireland wants protection, it's very much in their interest to allow RAF flights, not the other way round.
Do you not think though we should have a least the ability to monitor our airspace adequately, and I'm not talking about purchasing a squadron of F-35s. We are projected to run government surpluses of billions for the next couple of years and we can't do basic stuff like this. Embarassing IMO.
If tomorrow Ireland says to UK theres no need for raf to enter Irish airspace, what would be the response.
Exactly. We couldnt pay them enough not to. Because its REALLY in their interest to do so.
Simple folk struggle with such nuance. And prefer to go for sensationalist headlines.
The Tankies will be tying themselves in knots knowing that Ireland is relying on the RAF to protect Irish airspace. An increase in defence capability of the Irish Defence Forces is actually long overdue.
Anyone who demands further reductions in Irelands Defence Forces, or believes the recent Irish Defence Forces Commission report shouldn't be implemented is nothing more than a traitor.
It is the duty of the nation & elected government to properly defend the national territory.
Not really.
As we all know Nato has traditionally had a rivalry with Russia. As a result of this nato/russia rivalry Russian planes would troll the UK by travelling a route which happened to enter into Irish airspace.
Its the UKs politics attracting the problem. And its the UK forces reacting to that problem, the problem of Russians travelling along a route consistent with an attack on the UK/nato.
UK/nato is the target. So its their problem
So it seems it's official then, we freeload off the UK for our defence needs. Apparently this agreement has been in place since 1952.
Murmansk to Gibraltar, the shortest ( actually only by 100km or so) and easiest route to navigate is by the west coast of Ireland.
Key word being navigate. They of course are free to navigate through the EEZ.
However, stopping over international infrastructure or conducting exercises in the Irish EEZ are very much scenarios in which Ireland is obligated to monitor and investigate, and that is inclusive of everyone, not just the Russian's, and we have a very very limited capability in doing so.
Also, a change in behaviour, which Russia is currently doing, is an activity which requires monitoring... they regularly transited the English Channel to exercise their free navigation of the seas. This has drastically reduced over the past 2 years, with more and more transits via the west coast of Ireland, which happen to stop in close proximity to underwater infrastructure, where there is no real reason to do so.
On the flip of this, European vessels of all types are harassed in the Russian EEZ's off Murmansk and Kaliningrad if they even as much slow down or deviate from a route. This is typical of the Russian belief of "one rule for thee but not for me".
So is the Clyde sub base in east Scotland or west Scotland?
Go ahead.
And ,you said West Scotland which was wrong.
@Yurt2 and @antipathetic give it a rest, both of you. Put each other on ignore if you wish but stop dragging the thread off topic with constant sniping at each other
"The Scottish nuclear submarine base is in Clyde, which is on our side of Scotland ie East".
- Gatling. (Circa 2023).
You said west ,
Maps hey 🤣
Have a happy dream about basic probability Einstein.
LOL.
"our side of Scotland ie East"
Captain Birdseye, take out a map and retrieve a ruler. Draw the most direct line you can from lets say Lisbon up to the GIUK Gap that will take your there most efficiently. You are probably 80 kilometers from the Irish coast at the nearest point, and bearing down on 200 at the farthest as they pass Ireland. They made a beeline for out territorial water border and skirted it for pretty much the whole journey.
Your credulity, of course, knows no limits. But actual measurements and kilometers don't care that you're a Tankie that makes excuses for Russia.
Sleep well.
The most direct of two routes. And they sail all year round decade in decade out.
So of course at some point they're going to take the second option which is relatively slightly less efficient.
Jesus. Tiny minds.
Yeah Im looking at google earth genius.
If Russia DIDN'T often pass by our west coast, THAT would be the phenomenon.
A route by our west coast is one of only two efficient options. (a third option passing by a UK nuclear base).
Hope you get some rest. You need it.
Greencap, the most direct fuel saving route that would take someone from the Med to the GIUK Gap does not go by the Irish coast. Instead of telling someone to look at a map when they don't need one, it's you that should really invest in one with big letters, perhaps to go on your wall or something.
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