Why would you expect that a commercial service that operates purely for the operator to generate profit for themselves, would be included in the LEAP capping and then effectively be subsidised?
I would understand it if the service were PSO but it isn’t!
Is anyone really disputing that Dublin is the worst capital for public transport though? I didn't realise that the Swords Express isn't covered by the cap. That is typical of how things have improved a small bit but not really as much as it might seem. The new bus stops are excellent btw, and the TFI app is good too.
I suppose that when the scheme was originally designed, there was a recognition that the people least likely to be tempted to get out of their cars and use public transport tended to be those paying the higher tax rates, and this was an incentive to try and change their habits.
Also, the vast majority of people use just one mode of transport to commute, so the capping will be less than EUR 32 per week.
Monthly and annual bus/rail/LUAS tickets are available from any Irish Rail station for anyone to buy, but they won’t get the benefit of the tax reduction.
a removal of VAT on bikes would be more equitable than the BTW scheme. though as is often pointed out, one of the benefits of that scheme, even for lower paid workers, is that it'd often spread the cost of the bike over 12 months for them, thus removing the upfront cost.
I'm glad some attention is drawn to the perverse idea of regressive taxation via the TaxSaver scheme. It is bizarre how we subsidise public transport the most for the people who can pay the most for it.
Many of the same issues exist with the BTW scheme. A makeover of that is badly needed to make it more equitable
are there any easily available figures for the cost (i.e. tax foregone) of the taxsaver scheme?
I agree with the criticism of not including the leap card cap, but I'm glad some attention is drawn to the perverse idea of regressive taxation via the TaxSaver scheme. It is bizarre how we subsidise public transport the most for the people who can pay the most for it. I've yet to come across such a system internationally. Is there anywhere in the world which has a comparable system, I'd be curious to know?
I also appreciate that an easy to understand ranking from a large organization is (rightly IMO) drawing attention to how poor public transport is in Dublin even if the objective comparisons are not perfect.
This bit is nothing more than my own 2 cents but I haven't been to any similar sized cities across continental Europe which has been a worse experience than Dublin for public transport, even if the leap card implementation is definitely better than the ticketing arrangements some other cities have.
No it doesn’t as that is a commercial service.
Has someone explained to Greenpeace how price is pretty low down the list of what makes good public transport?
Does the Leap Card cap cover companies like the Swords Express? I know you can pay with your Leap card, but I think it's dear enough.
The way that they calculate it is bull though. 0 points for the leap card cap, or for the employer card. I get that we've got a long way to go, but this is just inaccurate and unhelpful.
Thought this was somewhat relevant here
I heard mannix flynn on the radio this morning and was quite embarrassed for people who might have voted for him. The topic was the government introducing the tax free rent a room scheme to social housing tenants.
Mannix: "someone working in banking isn't going to drive their Mercedes into one of these estates wearing their suit and drive out in the morning to go down to the IFSC"
I dunno is it drunkenness or is there something really wrong with him but that's what a Councillor is in the capital city, imagine them out in red neck places.
Agree - not in the short term. Something has to give though. Since late 70's once the FF Lynch Government removed rates; our Local Gov has been continually hollowed out to the extent that we now have the most centralised systems in Europe; as a result alot of our TD's are really of local Cllr grade rather than National Legislators. I think we need to have less Cllr's but make it a full time position, might attract that younger demographic.
Don't agree with the suggestion that "Ireland’s centralised structures, with city councils having very little power, were partly to blame for these problems". Galway itself is the perfect example of why we need centralised structures dictating to local government, Galway City Council is now moving to an office further away from the city centre and is buying hundreds of parking spaces with the new building! So much for leading by example in terms of sustainability.
I fully believe that if local government here had more power, they'd be pursuing less sustainable practices and promoting more car-centric policies. That might change with demographics over the next decade or so but can't see it changing in the short term.
Interesting (and very valid) perspective on Irish Planning...
An orbital Metro line for Lisbon would be nice, but that's getting ridiculously picky - was staying at a hotel near the Airport, near a yellow-line Metro station that took the guts of an hour to get to the Airport via metro - found out for the way back that they had a shuttle bus that took about 10mins.
Over here, you'd only have a shuttle bus and only if the airport bothered.
It's a shame that Dublin Bus are remarkably quiet about the huge impediment resulting from abuse of bus lanes, mostly for commercial deliveries. Try the Rathmines to Georges St axis during morning rush hour, and you'll inevitably find a number of vans or trucks blocking the bus lane, mostly pub and food deliveries.
In Dublin the car occupancy for crossing the Canal Cordon is 1.1 and that is a typical figure also found in the USA.
I picked that deliberately to overstate the occupancy. However, the occupancy figures I remember seeing stated of I think 1.2 were for the quays I think - and they could be different for the m50. Not by much, but I didn't want to make assumptions to falsely boost the argument.
Yes, last I had read on it, the average occupancy is 1.1 people.
Careful, you’ll be accused of ‘a great display of whatabouttery in a minute’ 🤪
ive spent a bit of time in Lisbon and it’s a total pleasure to navigate by public transport.
Lisbon :
4 metro lines, 56 metro stations.
6 tram lines, others planned
1 cable car
1 funicular
also a plethora of urban and suburban train services.
all the above conveniently and professionally integrated with each other and the bus services.
^^^ that’s how it should be done.
Lisbon, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, London, Copenhagen and Nice… all cities I’ve spent a good portion of time in and if I had to live in any… I wouldn’t bother driving….I wouldn’t need to. Here…. No, I’d need to
2 per car is wildly generous aswell!
And won't someone think of the pedestrians?!?
but it's not just cars crossing OCB; he mentioned carrying people. there are a lot of bus routes, and the luas, crossing OCB so it carrying more people than the M50 is probably within the realms of possibility.
e.g. a quick back of the envelope calculation - if you adhere to the two second rule, 30 cars would pass a single point on one lane on the M50 every minute. say you guess an average occupancy of 2 per car, that's 60 people per minute x 3 lanes, 180 a minute. and that's probably generous as regards car occupancy at rush hour.
the larger luas trams have a capacity of 400 people - say they're half full every three minutes, that's ~70 a minute on the luas - add two buses each minute also, you're easily up at the same 180 per minute figure.
really, where are you seeing those figures? I wouldn't drive across OCB to go anywhere in a fit, it's so awkward to get around that part of the City Centre. most of the actual cars I see in the CC are taxis, the worst congestion seems to be a bit further out around the canals, Ballsbridge, Drumcondra etc.
If, because of reduced congestion, the average bus speed increases by 10%, then the bus service improves by 10% in capacity, and travel time is reduced by 10%, and fuel consumption is reduced.
And all for free.
The M50 Westlink, the busiest (by aadt) and most expensive Road in the history of the state is still carrying less people than the 140 year old O'Connell Bridge after multi millions of euro of upgrades. We've been chasing a fallacy in transport planning.
Indeed. As Dublin Bus keep saying, the biggest impediment to a better bus service is the number of cars on the road.
Its also worth pointing out that Dublins bus, luas, rail and cycle network would easily absorb any additional loading from a similar ban though. Removing cars from the central quays for example would free up between 50 to 80% of the road cross section for more efficient transport modes.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w6.vanillicon.com/v2/62877c35768f143f69acd7bb6cd43f3c.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://www.boards.ie/applications/dashboard/design/images/banned.png)
