Speaking the truth about many social housing occupants. Honesty in this country would win tons of votes. Peter casey went from one to 23% in the presidential election, by speaking the truth on one subject. Pity that's the last home truth we will hear from an established party for a while... because speaking the truth is strictly " verbotten" by a party that will never win a welfare vote and by our perpetual victim supporting media!
That (the part of her statement mentioning the kids) is the one part I wish she hadn't included and I'd imagine, apart from the pandering apology, the one part she regrets.
The thing is these kids don't get their attitudes, education, viewpoints or anything else from Aisling Moran, they get it from the parents, unfortunately. So if you don't address the adults in the room then how will anything ever change? Saying its too far gone and hoping the next generation will be an improvement has been done and it's failed from everything I've seen. The parents get worse (as parents and members of society), the kids get treated worse and eventually grow into the little charmers who think they are entitled to everything for free. They do what the want, which is fine by the parents and they learn little titbits like, don't bother paying for refuse collection. Just f*ck it where you stand and the council will solve the problem, along with all others. The anger is justified here and I'm not sure why Aisling Moran is getting more of it than the frankly sh*tty and unsuitable parents who allow generations of their family to freeload.
One of the major symptoms being that their children have to put up with their shìt, so when a councillor says that their children will never work a day in their lives, that’s only exacerbating the symptoms because it gives people an opportunity to point out to their children that they don’t want to grow up to be anything like the councillor.
Which, y’know, is a fair point, given that if it were me in their situation and someone said that about my children, they’d be sucking their next meal through a straw… if they were a fella of course, I’m sexist like that 😒 But you get the point - trying to address the adults attitudes is a futile exercise, because by the time it gets to that point, their attitude towards other people is ingrained. What CAN be done however, is that instead of expending energy getting angry at the adults (water off a ducks back), show their children that there are alternatives to being predestined to enter into the family business so to speak. It’s why I worked for as long as I did in social work, not because I liked the people I worked with (they often exhibited similar moral values to posters on here as to what should be done with people who offended their sensitivities), but because I was more interested in ensuring children didn’t feel like they were destined for a life of perpetual misery in adulthood.
@One eyed Jack
Usually find myself agreeing with you but in this case I've seen the proof of what the councillor said throughout my life and it continues to this day. Yes, the underlying problem is the main cause but it would be no harm to fix one of the major symptoms of that main cause. Plus, lets be honest. No matter who is in power, they will not start taking houses away from people, it would be political suicide. That doesn't stop the genuine anger people feel. I'm not talking about throwing everyone out of their council houses, most of them are needed and indeed deserved but there are people, entire families in fact who simply do not deserve the perks they get when the rest of us need to work hard to come anywhere close. There has to be a better and fairer way to go about things and it cannot involve major political change as we know how that goes in Ireland. We can't even vote a different party in, no matter how beaten down by them we are.
But nobody is arguing that councils don’t gut and refit houses at all? The claim was that councils gut and refit houses before new tenants move in. That’s clearly not the case. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that the council would be required to maintain properties over 25 years, the properties aren’t the property of the tenants, and any repairs, improvements or replacement of furniture, furnishings or fixtures are the responsibility of the council, who receive funding from the State to carry out these repairs and maintenance or upkeep.
The organ grinder I’m referring to are councillors whose responsibility it is to maintain council properties, used for the purposes of providing social housing. That the councillor has a beef with tenants is not the tenant’s problem, and because the councillor was made aware of a family who were homeless whom accommodation couldn’t be provided for, is also not the council tenants responsibility -
The threats came after a council meeting in which Cllr Moran said it was "scandalous" that a local father facing homelessness with his family was told he would need to earn less to get a council house.
She told Pat what happened next.
“I said that there are genuine people - and there are a lot of genuine people - that need all the help they can get,” she said.
“But some council houses are being held up by an awful lot of people who have never worked a day in their life. Their parents have never worked a day in their life and their children will never work a day in their life.
“Now I shouldn’t have said that, but it was kind of in the heat of the moment.”
She’s right, she shouldn’t have said it, and at least she’s acknowledged that much. Trying to justify saying it afterwards is only a demonstration that she didn’t actually mean it when she said she shouldn’t have said it. Not surprising behaviour from a politician.
There’s no “working man” is forking out for all this, because funding for social housing is provided by public funds, it’s not directly provided for by taxpayers in the sense you’re trying to imply, taxpayers of whom many, many, mannnnnny more… are dependent upon the Welfare State, due to policies which are introduced by the politicians whom are voted for by the electorate (as opposed to the idea of anyones vote being dependent upon whether they pay any form of taxes or not).
That’s why I suggest that cribbing about the monkeys thinking they’re on the pigs back receiving a few hundred a week in welfare is a futile exercise, when it would be far more worthwhile scrutinising the people who are actually responsible for making local and national policy decisions. In short - address the underlying social ill instead of complaining because the symptoms are ugly to have to look at.
But Councils do gut and refit in many cases . They spend eye watering sums of money in remediating the damage caused by some of their tenants . In the last 25 years , in a town near me , three settlements , of multiple housing units each have been demolished in their entirety because they were wrecked . This was on top of several individual houses having to be completely refurbished and also clearing up after several illegal encampments - one of which cost 19 k to clean up .
Im not sure of who you are referring to wrt the organ grinder and the monkey but to me the only ape is the working man who is forking out for all of this .
Am assuming you mean an increase in support, rather than building another couple of Shannons with the savings.
So why do you think this isn't happening, if it's so obvious? I mean FG probably spends millions every year on advisers, researchers etc. but you, some guy on the Internet, have a simple proposal to boost their ratings that all these Einsteins haven't cottoned on to...
I know they do, but that wasn’t the original claim, but yes, it is a cost attributable to the welfare state, and an obligation which all too often councillors have neglected because they act like the funds are coming out of their own pockets. That’s why families requiring accommodation are all too often housed in squalid conditions, as opposed to the idea that councils gut and refit houses every time a tenant moves out, and before a new tenant moves in. Allowing people to live in such conditions provides no value or benefit to the State whatsoever. It’s quite literally pissing money down the drain.
Go after the organ grinder instead of cribbing about the monkey.
I know that -
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/additional_needs_payment.html
You appear to have overlooked the meat of the claim though - that there is as much truth to the claim of mothers leaving buggies at bus stops because they can’t take them on the bus and they can get money from the social to get another one anyway.
I'm not talking about that, when the council redo houses aside from ensuring that they're up to modern spec, they'll also make accomodations depending on people's individual disabilities, this could range from lowered countertops to handrails to walk in showers, things that would cost a private homeowner money but something I doubted anyone would be opposed too until I read this thread.
People using fake disabilities to go on the life dole are a completely different discussion.
It is true that the DSP pay out money for child buggies.
If you don’t want to work and raise kids that don’t want to work it’s your fault. Not the gubberment Joe
Councils spend tens of millions every year on renovating and repairing their social housing stock. As they should . But it is another cost attributable to the welfare state .
We can’t have these lads doing anything to help themselves . Much easier to have the working man / woman pay for it .
Disabilities often come up on these topics. But plenty of people with disabilities can and do work without expecting government handouts.
Some of course can not work but plenty can.
If by “completely accurate” you mean there’s the same truth to the claim as claims of mothers leaving their buggies at bus stops because they can’t take them on the bus and they can get money from the social to get another one anyway, then yes, the claim is completely accurate.
Otherwise, no, it’s bullshìt.
The actual claim that the council will rip out whatever is in the house and put it back to standard is completely accurate, the other part of the post just looks like another chance to kick those in social housing that failed.
Paying people to do f..k all for generations has been perfectly acceptable to most people, for generations. It’s why we continue to vote for politicians who, like the councillor in question, are very good at shìt-stirring, but of fcukall use to do anything else. That’s why there are people here saying she’d be popular were she to stand in the next general election. Where do you imagine the funds to pay politicians salaries comes from?
I don’t think you can count politicians as an ethnic minority though, no matter how closely they need to be kept tabs on by Gardaí.
Because it makes the society better. Children of unemployed parents living more or less comfortably, with an access to same schools as everyone else, have better chances to become productive workers -- and less chances if they live in squalor, eat sub-par food and have no space to do their homework.
But even if you say, that's it, provision of houses to unemployed ceases right now, that does not help to solve the housing crisis or help working people to get houses. For it is a political suicide to suggest that the current tenants of social housing would be evicted from their houses. Thus you just create another level of inequality -- people who got their social house earlier and the rest.
Whatever Cllr Moran insinuates is unworkable, so it is just stirring shite in the pot.
There are solutions to help working people to get their own houses. Going after social welfare recipients is not one of them.
Why do we need to do anything ?
Workers of this country have been ridden enough . Paying people to do f..k all for generations isn’t acceptable to a lot of people .
And it isn’t just paying them welfare . We must house them as well ! And in the case of a certain ethnic minority we have to pay to have AGS try to keep tabs on them .
They started their post though with “Apparently”, an easy out from their claims being called bullshìt.
You do realise people moving into the vacant council house have zero say in that, right?
bullsh1t!
there are direct links to long term unemployment from all around the world, to government lead polices such as 'austerity, and beyond....
The generational work shy exist in almost every country on the planet unless there’s forced labour. This isn’t a government issue it’s a human issue and the only people to blame are the people who don’t want to work. I’m not buying that victim mentality here. These are not the same as those who want to work but can’t.
Nothing she said was true, and can’t be verified in any way because ordinary people don’t have access to that kind of information on people in receipt of social welfare benefits or allowances.
My thoughts on the death threats? Pretty stupid thing to be doing if it can be verified that there’s any truth in that claim too, they’re a matter for Gardaí, using the limited resources they have as a consequence of Government cutbacks, to investigate. I have no doubt the Gardaí will conduct a full and thorough investigation into each and every incident based upon the evidence provided to them by the councillor in question.
...she should have a good chat with social workers and the like, to try understand why such outcomes occur, she might find the truth very unpalatable though, the fact that many are in these type of situations due to polices implemented from success governments, which have of course included her own party!
Everything she said was true. What’s your thoughts on the death threats?
They wouldn’t get any disproportionate increase in support because most people who pay tax don’t care about people who are dependent upon welfare or ‘taxes being squandered’ or any of the rest of that nonsense. They care more about being able to provide for themselves and their families.
What you’re suggesting doesn’t rise to the level of insanity, it’s just stupid.
USC you say...
2016 - Fine Gael plan to abolish 'hated' USC ranks above every other tax promise
Fine Gael plan to abolish 'hated' USC ranks above every other tax promise - Independent.ie
Fine Gael plan to abolish 'hated' USC ranks above every other tax promise
So much is about optics. If fg started making some well overdue welfare reforms, even if it saved 100 million a year i.e nothing in the scheme of things, they would get a massively disproportionate increase in airport, because at least taxpayers would feel someone is listening to them and less of their tax is being squandered
This sounds insane, but what about giving people bonuses not to have kids before say 28 etc... I mean, virtually nobody we want to have kids, has them before then these days..
Totally Agree. Yet they are now so spineless, mainly because of the leftwing media. Their main concern is welfare claimants. Announced yesterday, more welfare bonuses... if they have countless billions to squander on welfare, usc should be abolished...
I thought #20 were going to be politicians 😂
With regards to the councillor in this instance, well it’s not much more than ‘troll gets trolled’. She’s in a position of authority and responsibility, decides to use that position to take a massive dump on a section of Irish society, then goes on national media to complain about the backsplash.
No sympathy for her whatsoever, and no, she wasn’t “telling the truth”, she was shìt-stirring, and hoping that her ideas would resonate with other people like a fart in an echo chamber. Nobody, when they take a dump on someone, is entitled to expect those people should be held to a different standard of having to be civil in expressing their dissatisfaction with being dumped on.
People will use that reaction to justify their already low opinions of other people by way of saying “Look at how they react, I told you they’re not fit for civilised society”. Standard stuff from a politician who knows they’re up to their neck in shìt - dump on other people to take the spotlight off themselves.
So if you can't afford private rentals, you're not entitled to a safe heated house, or to have any disabilities catered for. We should bring back the workhouses.
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