Farmers in Russia will be told what they can and can't plant and where and how much.
The view from Australia is this is a positive for Australian farmers.
Another orc attack ends in disaster. 5 tanks destroyed and probably dozens of casualties.
Ukraine will figure this out and I am very confident of this. They are fighting for their lives against the orc rapists. They are highly motivated.
The U.S. vehicles, probably numbering at least 30, are unlikely to arrive by spring, when Russian forces are expected to begin a new offensive and Ukraine plans to launch its own counteroffensive to take back Russian-occupied territory. Instead, the Abramses are “probably not for the near fight,” one U.S. official said, and are not likely to arrive for many months, if not years.
The US do enough to entice all Leopard holders to empty their reserves, but will we actually see Abrams handed over in a reasonable timeframe?
Should be a good decade ahead for General Dynamics anyways, no shortage of customers after this!
It looks that way to me too --
Feign disarray, then suddenly a comprehensive shopping list gets ticked off
Let the "master strategist" sit back stroking his cat while the Ukrainians envisage their next creative move
A conglomerate of intelligent, sentient beings versus a septic pea-brain
Having once been a sly spy does not equate to intelligence
I did notice a change in tactic on here over the last few pages,
Living here is grim , they are alive and living in a safe country, could be a hell of a lot worse, they could be in a trench in Ukraine,dead
The only rationality I can find in the overall German and French position is the fear of a collapsed Russia with two nuclear armed factions emerging in its wake. That would be a bad result for humanity. The current homogenous Russia is probably better than that hypothetical balkanised Russia. Sending huge amounts of heavy armour to Ukraine does increase the likelihood of that scenario. But that does not excuse the unwillingness to send any tanks.
Potentially yes, killing an M1 would be a boost for the Russians…but they might have to ignore the scores of T-Series tanks that were likely destroyed in the attempt.
A brief synopsis will do.
Edit: 8 hrs. No synopsis received. Possibly someone is allergic to facts. So heres the thing, Germany benefitted for almost 50 years from cheap Russian oil, gas.
Made a fortune.
The savings must have reached the high hundreds of billions. Germany benefitted from such savings since the world trade center was just opening. Since disco. Probably a decade before Gordon Gecko had a brick phone.
This will also have led to increased investment. Aside from the huge monetary savings.
Thats Germany getting "screwed" according to some.
How did Germany get screwed by Russia?
anyone care to explain in detail?
Well theres some debate about the so called foot dragging.
We're yet to learn whether it was a Polish political issue or what exactly was going on this whole time. Apparently the tanks only needed a formal request from Poland to ensure delivery.
US was involved too, with the issue of Abrams. Its all behind closed doors for now. We may never find out what the negotiations and diplomacy involved.
Far too few facts to be pointing fingers.
I dont know what racism to russian soldiers situation youre referring to. Nothing to do with me.
Dublin, Ireland.
We haven't had mention of the Russian Su57 super Stealth next generation fighter ( neither of the above) being deployed to Ukraine,I believe there was a single claim but I don't think it's actually been flown anywhere near ukraine or Belarus even .....
Fact of the matter doesn't matter what part of the internet people go to Germany got royally screwed by the Russians and Rather than trying to fix the mess they got themselves into , they repeatedly dragged their feet rather than actually taking lead they made excuses and decided it was Best to blame escalation for not getting involved sooner, they have done themselves serious reputationl damage in both Europe, Nato and the global stage,
There's no Germaphobia on here they have been rightly called out by the majority on this thread and the other thread,
Anything else is an attempt to disrupt the ongoing discussion,
Last week we were all racist to russian soldiers,this week it's racism towards Germany... Calling out political decisions or indecision is racist....?
Oh now I dont take this small thread to be a consistently very reliable reflection of reality. At times its full of petty squabbling over semantics. Facts arent accepted by some users, and flippant accusations (of bots, Rusbots, Mick Wallace, etc) are made to those who dont parrot the exact views of a few rather dictatorial users. At times as a means of trying to save their face.
(Ive added a signature which outright condems Russia and Putin unconditionally to dissuade such lame accusations, Russia is 100% in the wrong, the Kremlin is corrupt and immoral, Putin is a war criminal)
As others have said theres a weird Germanophobia theme pervading certain corners in here, sensational and akin to something you might find coming from the lowbrow likes of the daily express, the daily heil, conspiracy forums or Farage. Real pub toilet door stuff.
But it does have its positives too. More reasoned users providing actual sourced facts, and reliable updates as the situation unfolds. There are good contributors (none of the good 'spot on' ones displaying any of the 'Germany bad' bollox). And its good to see the universal condemnation of Russias aggression among my fellow Irish people. Its another small alternative source of information outside of the larger, more prominent sites.
Ps. @odyssey06 you said earlier that Ireland did not supply non-lethal aid to Ukraine, but we most certainly did. Hope you can now accept this fact graciously.
Send the Challengers down the throat (main gun) with the LeClercs flanking (accuracy). Let the rest do their stuff if it ever goes Kursk.
Eh, what do I know, daft Irish man.
We know they don't have a lack of manpower,or on the front lines or other echelons such as maintainers,like that support vehicles will likely part of any package they are given,the biggest issue will be co-ordination of the forces so far we are hearing 4 different tanks that all different to the next even though they are similar in looks and designs,
If anything they should just concentrate on the Leopards they have the biggest numbers across the eu in both operational tanks and decommissioned or mothballed , bringing Abrams, Challenger, and lecleric tanks and swedish Stridsvagn 122 tanks Will over complicate things, maintenance, support,and training on 5 tanks,4 different IVFs and other vehicles,
It makes more sense having a coherent action plan,
1 main tank ,
1 main ifv
Then other vehicles Strykers , Maraders CV90s Which ever combination gives them best offensive Capabilities and ease of operation
I believe in Ukraine's situation the issue is not so much the tanks but rather the support vehicles/crew/equipment and the proper deployment of such. It's all very well going in tank busters with one company but you have to be able to go in again tomorrow with the same number of tanks and crew, and the next day and the next day until you win.
2⁰ more on that frog please.
..
Probably unless the Ukrainans have already been receiving training on them in a friendly country, there's been a few posts on social media showing Leopards on trains in Germany already heading east, likely people getting over excited tanks regularly travel by trains going to and from exercises and maintenance facilities,
We could be in reality looking at March or April before seeing any of the new armor announced not just tanks but the various IFVs too ,I know over the last few years Ukrainian military have been working with US and Nato but wether that included qualifications on Nato armored vehicles is a different story all together
As it stands it seems Russia is preparing for a large offensive to take karkhiv again according to reports,
I honestly think the crews are trained and ready to go (also support and logistics) but tactical deployment won't happen for 10 to 14 weeks.
Mid to late spring, after the daffodils bloom but before the roses. Or just in time for the next conciliatory gesture from Russia a la Kherson.
How long will it take to get the Leopards to Ukraine, get the logistics chains in place and get the crews trained up?
Will it be 3 months or longer before they are used at the front line?
You do realize this thread is in the real world,
Many of the contributors have been pretty spot on since day one ,we all know exactly what's going on off this thread,I'm sure elsewhere bots and what not are happy to spread page after page of misinformation,on here they tend not to last very long to have any real effect,
There is this other chart taken off front page of that Kiel Institute website (so same source as your ones) but I think perhaps excluding military aid (I have not read notes on it) so not telling whole story:
The total US "aid" given may be far less weighted to the future commitments I imagine.
Approx 1/2 of it (can see from other charts on the site) is value of weapons they have sent to Ukraine. I think they announce it, and these weapons (which will mostly be stored away) come out of the cupboard and go off reasonably quickly in the weeks after so none of that would be future "commitments".
The US is still the "arsenal of democracy" and all that, it has weaponry of all types available to send Ukraine coming out of its ears. I don't think Germany, or any of the European countries (or the collective EU) can be expected to do what they do, or match this level of support even were they minded to.
These sorts of charts also omit fact that the war is hurting and imposing costs on Europe's economy far more than the US, in multiple ways, but of course that's probably another good argument for EU countries to increase their aid to Ukraine more (certainly the military aid, to try and end the war faster on better terms for Ukraine).
Here's how Bild are reporting things. Main headline is "These tanks save lives!". Bottom right hand panel reads "Decision made on Leopards : We send tanks to Ukraine".
Just reporting on whats going on back in reality, outside of this 1 very small corner.
Some rumors from German papers that tomorrow is the big day. That agreement with Poland happens, and leopards are sent.
If so, its going to be mighty hard for the remaining screechers to keep up the 'Germany bad' act.
That's original blame up and coming polish elections.
The Germans have been dragging their heels since day one , where they should have led they cowered behind excuses , it's the equivalent to listening to people on here saying let's not do anything putin has nukes,
When it looked like Poland and other countries were willing to stand up the Germans tried to stop any Momentum by publicly balking at some suggestions and telling the press they wanted to make sure no country broke the party line of we don't want to escalate this conflict,
They got caught with their pants down while putin was lubing himself up and preparing himself for a quick ride
That's Renault cars gone. Dacia cars gone. Citreon cars gone. That's the city of St. Petersberg levelled.
Be german next.
Someone buy shares in Lada tout suite.
Outside of this site there seems to have been a real change of narrative recently. The online consensus now seems to be that the whole debacle was largely down to Polands PiS party fcking up, and trying to create some kind of anti-German PR for upcoming elections.
I dont know that to be true, or false, its hard to tell at this stage with all the conflicting information. But you can definitely see the internet at large has binned the kneejerk 'Germany bad' schtick. The above meme top ranking on reddit.
I think the brief tabloid-esque freakout may be about to be drowned out by calmer more reasoned voices.
If there's one thing to be said in this matter, it would be to differentiate between the German government and Germans as a whole, because I can tell you that there there is a huge difference between the two!
The huge difference between the two is that half of the German population rejects supplying the Ukraine with such weapons. But it was always going to come this way. Germany has become a pathetic sh1tshow for some time now and has that American dick so far up their arse it's nearly at their tonsils.
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