Fine introduced for misuse of EV charging bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119804719#Comment_119804719

Yeah, you're right. I'd probably be fine since there's enough chargers there that it's rarely full (it's a unicorn among ESB AC sites) but it's not exactly in the spirit of fair usage

Still, it does present a possible legal challenge that if the charger is broken then someone can wriggle out of a fine

I do think that enforcement of the fines will be basically nonexistent, there's far too many ways to get out of it.

Remember that picture of a jeep owner from the US who attended a Type 2 holder to his car so he could pretend he was using the free charging spots? Some genius here will do something similar and the cops won't be bothered disputing him

Furze99

Half an hour max for everyone and then jog on.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119806083#Comment_119806083

Do you really think it's ok to ask someone to move a car at 3am in the morning? AC is for charging whilst you are parked not something you actively seek out.

slave1

A Gen 1 Leaf with 3.XkWh charging speed needs hours to top up fully on AC

JohnC.

Ones at train stations or park and ride is unlikely to have anyone coming back within a short time either.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119807261#Comment_119807261

This should be the nub of the issue, we need different chargers and different policies for each, not just a blanket approach for all AC chargers.

2/3.5kW in airport car parks: long stay.

3.5/7kW at Train stations: day-long stay.

7/11/22 On-street: as long as the max stay according to the parking regulations.

7/11/22 Suburban/Neighbourhood chargers: overnight.

50kW DC: as long as reasonable charge takes and no longer.

150kW DC: few minutes and then go away.

Of course, this only works if there are enough of each type of charger. eCars have no interest in installing any more ACs, the councils seem luke-warm at best and private operators probably won’t be keen unless it’s subsidised considering the huge amount of ground works needed to install large numbers of them on-street. And if mandatory card payment comes in, that will make AC even less attractive to operators.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802965#Comment_119802965

I think there's plenty of circumstances where someone might legitimately be plugged into AC for 12 hours or more, so 2 hour limits aren't going to work unless it's somewhere that enforces that limit on all other cars

If that's the case then they shouldn't have put an AC charger there, a 50kW DC would be more suitable

I don't see any case where someone is sitting plugged in and gets a fine. You'd need to pull the charging session history and see that the charger hasn't been active for hours, which parking wardens won't be bothered doing

The fine will be to discourage ICEing and EVs blocking chargers and not plugging in

ismailkho

Theres another charger on Mark street and that's used by a Prius who obviously thinks it's a spot exclusively for him.

kirving

Actually I take back my last point. Parked today at a free charger intending to chare the 330e (near the door in a busy car park), but as I was getting out I saw a Tesla who had followed me in and was waiting for the space. So I gave up the space drove away, only to find no other space in the car park, and had to drive to another car park. I walk back past the door on my way in, only to see that the Tesla hasn't even bothered to plug in - they just wanted the space...

eltoastero

So is there a way to report a car that is blocking a charger?

Or are we reliant on the guards or parking warden happening to walk by and notice a car is not charging but blocking a charger?

I just happen to be walking past an AC charger which has a (regular) Fabia parked and a PHEV parked but not charging (and a leaf has just driven past, stopped, and had to drive on)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064028#Comment_120064028

I think this will be effective in keeping chargers free. Noone wants a fine no matter how remote the prospect of enforcement.

We have 5 charging spaces at work. Since the middle of November my company has started charging the people using our chargers in the work car park €1 per kwh to charge and you arent allowed to park in them unless you are charging. They are all empty all the time now that there is no more free charging at work. They said it was to encourage people not to overstay in them as more people have EVs lately and were complaining they couldnt get into the chargers because a few people were staying all day. But it was really because the bean counters realized charging is now costing the company a fortune.

People started then charging their cars in the car park of the hotel across the road. Now I hear the hotel have noticed and are going to outsource their chargers so that you need an app to pay and charge. Not sure how that will work, but someone told me they were at a hotel recently in Dublin where that was already happening. They were paying €1.75 per kwh at the hotel charger via an app.

Furze99

The freebies and incentives are closing off. We can fully expect EVs to cost every bit as much to own, tax, insure and fuel in years to come as existing vehicles. This will slow demand which both suits changing public policy thinking and the supply problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064028#Comment_120064028

I dunno, given the speeds you see people belting up and down motorways and N roads, I'd say people will always chance their arms.

But hopefully it will cut it down a bit

I agree that paid charging is a great way to discourage abuse of chargers, already seen the difference with Ecars and as you say others are starting to catch on

I think €1/kWh is a bit much for workplace charging. Doesn't need to be free but at the same time they could probably sell the electricity at cost. Business rates are generally a bit higher than night rate, so people will still only use it as needed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064062#Comment_120064062

Good point.

See in the UK it has or is soon to be law that you can only get chargers installed that are able to be controlled by the power companies now too.

They say its so they can turn them off an on remotely to protect the grid, but the real reason is that it is the solution to taxing EV fuel to replace the lost revenue from ICE fuel.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064212#Comment_120064212

That runour has been flying around for years, I doubt it'll work out at all. If you started getting taxed for using your charger then everyone would just switch to using the granny lead

I'd believe the idea that it's for grid protection, there's a lot of research projects going on at the moment around how best to use EVs for grid balancing. You'd probably see the charger being tied to the prices of electricity, so if it shoots up suddenly then all the chargers throttle to reduce demand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064161#Comment_120064161

Theres propbably a lot more to it than the cost though. The the ear bending that is on the increase as more staff get EVs and want the perks that the early adopters got. Newer EV drivers are so moany I find. Companies would rather take it away than referee the moaning. Plus they probably see that now its costing them so better not to have it. Then there is the use of the spaces that are EV only. Now that they will be empty they might think they can cut them down to only 2 and let others use them.

As for hotels outsourcing chargers now. I can see their point too. I was often at the desk of a hotel where multiple people were trying to book the charger or complaining that there was someone else on the charger. Now that a €100 night might cost the hotel €50 in electricity to charge the persons car, its easier for them to outsource it and maybe make a profit from it. As well as saying that the chargers have nothing to do with them when there is an issue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064231#Comment_120064231

Some people would switch to the granny lead alright. I actually have only ever used the granny charger as long as ive been driving an EV, but im sure they are working on that problem too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064161#Comment_120064161

The only problem will be if some guy without home charging buys an EV with the intention of charging at work. Would cause a fair bit of friction if he camped out full time on a charger. Easiest way to avoid this is to charge a reasonably high rate to discourage people from hogging an increasingly sought after benefit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064248#Comment_120064248

Yeah there's still so many ways around it that I don't see any reliable way to enforce it

I don't doubt there's a few politicians who would like to enact a system of mileage based taxes, but it would need to be a system that can actually be enforced

Fixed charges on car type are much easier to track and enforce

The closes thing I could see happening would be a tag on and off system for motorways and major N roads, so longer distance travelling is charged for

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064634#Comment_120064634

Would agree fixed charges will apply for some time yet. As regards the on/off tag, this would require careful planning to avoid the law of unintended consequences, especially if N roads are targeted

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064634#Comment_120064634

Yeah absolutely, I just reckon €1/kWh is a bit high for workplace charging considering public charging is around half that price

If someone is paying for the service then I don't really have an issue how long they stay, assuming they're actually charging and not just blocking the space

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064715#Comment_120064715

Exactly in my place there is only one charger and 2 allocated spaces, yet these have been reallocated to senior managers who drive ICEs. Once pulled in beside charger to get a top up and was quickly told to move on. For some employers it's still all about optics and compliance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064689#Comment_120064689

For motorways it should be pretty simple, similar systems work well in Europe

There's an argument that introducing tolls on all motorway travel will shift traffic to smaller roads.

To an extent that is true, but it'll mostly stop people hopping on the motorway for one exit and causing unnecessary congestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064798#Comment_120064798

Jesus, that's poor form, some serious backward thinking from that employer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064913#Comment_120064913

When I was pushing to get one of the allocated spots, given I was the only EV driver at the time, I was told if they did that then everyone would get an EV and want the same treatment!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064901#Comment_120064901

Agree it's easier to do on motorways but it would certainly lead to people avoiding motorways, which could be positive or negative given the location. Drogheda might be a good example where people will sit in traffic to cross the town as the M1 exit is tollled. Would be interesting to see the impact on say Dundalk which currently is not tolled

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064212#Comment_120064212

Nonsense