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Being forced to move back to dublin to work from the office 4 out of 5 days.

global23214124

I currently live in the countryside about 3 hours transport from Dublin. My company recently said we have to go back to the office for 4 out of the 5 days and can work from home 1 day a week. We were supposed to be coming in 1 day a week but I haven't really done that as it wasn't enforced. They are clamping down on it a bit more now so I'm guessing its going to be enforced somehow but I'm not sure how yet. Another person on my team has managed to get 1 day a week instead as he has kids which is fair enough. I've heard of other exceptions being made but only for reduced mobility. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I'm thinking about looking for some remote positions to see what else might be out there.

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Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039392#Comment_120039392

The OP should also consider what exactly was said to them because it’s not clear from the posts.

Seriously, this is ridiculous though and I am getting tired of people who think that remote working should continue to be accommodated to suit their situation. If your employer wants you back on the premises there is a probably reason for it.

Larbre34

There may be a good reason. There may not be a good reason. They don't have to give a reason.

The proposed legislation to support a greater degree of working from home in the workforce, has not become law yet.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039392#Comment_120039392

It really isn't.

But who am I only a line manager and professional in a firm of specialist consultants, who have spent the last 18 months considering the implications of longer term 'working from home' and greater demand from our people for precisely that.

The fact is, family friendly policies, for those who have such commitments, are only for people who have such commitments! They have to be applied for, with details of those commitments supplied, in a confidential process between employee and employer. A three hour commute does not qualify. And being refused greater flexible working, for a reason that doesn't qualify in the first place, certainly does not constitute discrimination. In fact, I'd be interested in the source which suggested to you that it may be.

Anyway, the OP is free to get advice from a solicitor or HR specialist, but it will be the same outcome, only he will be €250 lighter.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039283#Comment_120039283

>the employee shall live within a reasonable distance of their assigned place of work

Never seen the likes of this in a contract.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039599#Comment_120039599

It was in my public service contract.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039137#Comment_120039137

I don’t know the legal vagaries but surely something like this is discrimination in the other direction?

poppers

You were asked 2 come In 1 day a week which you say you ignored , and now you want them to meet you half way by say coming in 2 days a week.

If every else in the company also ignored the 1 day a week policy I can see why they are cracking down on the WFH culture.

Wanderer2010

OP it depends on how the remote work policy is worded. If it states in black and white that all workers must be on site 4 days a week then you havent much wiggle room there and if so, maybe look around for other wfh jobs. There are plenty of them out there, despite this bizzare notion from so many people that we should all be in an open plan office monday to friday 9-5 and that thats the only efficient model of a workplace. Lots of companies have learnt from Covid and have allowed remote and flexible working options. The ones that rigidly adhere to the "you must be on site" mindset are losing employees hand over fist.

However, if its the case where certain people can wfh and others cant, typically women with kids, then yeah thats out of order particularly if the work can be done sufficiently from home. You can say to your manager would it be possible to keep your current arrangement as the commute would be quite long. Thats not your employers problem of course but there is no harm in presenting this argument. It galls me when women with kids act all superior and entitled when it comes to the hierarchy of who should and who shouldnt work from home. If a job can be done remotely then anyone can do it- single, kids, no kids, old young etc. Flexible work options are not exclusive to families. Again, if you get nowhere then i advise looking for a more tolerant employer. Good luck.

DownByTheGarden

I know of at least one big company who are going to make a lot of redundancies soon. Currently they have a policy of staff working from home 4 days a week.

A friend working in their HR department told me that hey have been told by head office to select the names of the staff who can be made redundant. And then make them all come back to the office for 5 days a week. If they get enough people to leave from that then they save themselves on redundancy.

I said that might be constructive dismissal. My friend said they have a whole legal department there who decided that they could do this. Some cost benefit calculation.

That said though, I think if working from home suits anyone and then they are told to go back to the office that they should actually straight away be looking for a new job that suits them better. Who wants to commute when you can just join a different company where you dont have to commute. I would be out the door like a shot if i was brought back into the office for more days than i am at the moment. I can just about tolerate the days im in now. It would kill me to have to go in more.

TheSheriff

We are back four days per week in the office.

Lost team members during the process, but they've been replaced.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039539#Comment_120039539

Family friendly policies have to be for everyone, no matter what there status is. Otherwise it is discrimination. The source who have suggested it is discrimination is the irish legislation, namely the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015. A person is said to be discriminated against if they are treated less favourably than another is, has been or would be treated in a comparable situation on any of the nine grounds. Family status is one of the nine grounds.

If an employer treats Mary less favourably than John because of her race that is discrimination. If an employer treats Mary less favourably than John because of her sexual orientation than that is discrimination. If an employer treats Mary less favourable than John because of her family status that is discrimination.

If an employer had a policy that said white people didn't have to attend the office but black people did, that would be discrimination. If an employer had a policy that straight people didnt havd to attend the office but gay people did that would be discrimination. If an employer had a policy that people who didn't have kids could work from home and people with kids had to attend the office that would be discrimination.

During your 18 months work I'd love to know how you came to the conclusion it isn't discrimination.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039164#Comment_120039164

So do you have a contract that says you are WFH permanently? Or is it WFH until it isn't?

I'd be worried if my company told me I can WFH permanently as I'd be seriously questioning if I'm a valued employee, my chances of ever being promoted, and the likelihood of me being first in line if redundancies were being considered.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039999#Comment_120039999

Has there been any difficulty replacing them?

dashoonage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039739#Comment_120039739

This is what stood out to me as well. We are lucky to have 4 days a week from home and by god I make sure I'm in that office 1 day a week

You were give a gift horse with the 1 day a week and ignored it.

TheSheriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040062#Comment_120040062

Absolutely zero issues, we were completely over subscribed when I opened the job adverts.

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039061#Comment_120039061

the government and RTE were pushing the whole thing during Covid to keep people in their homes and to pressure employers to keep people at home. It was highly irresponsible to be pushing WFH as a permanent thing , the talking heads got carried away with this hysteria during Covid, They were also saying that pubs and nightclubs would never reopen again and that people would not travel by plane again which explains the huge backlogs in Dublin airport during the summer.

I think WFH in the future will really be only for senior highly skilled employees who have already proved themselves. In the OP situation I think that they are gradually phasing out WFH fulltime for all employees. I would say a new employee with children would not be given that option to WFH , it is just for established employees and probably just temporary at the discretion of the employer

Collie D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040083#Comment_120040083

This is the key I think. It only takes a few people applying their own rules to a situation for an employer to turn around and say “This just isn’t worth the hassle” and scrap the whole thing.

Beta Ray Bill

Hi OP

I think you might be fairly goosed. Unless the majority/all the employees within your company do no comply with the new rules, then you'll need to comply.

You've a few options though, you could see if you can get your employer to agree with 2 days perhaps. In you're post you said 3 hours transport I'm assuming you mean not driving and taking public transport. Sure you could drive to the M50 and use public transport from there?

Many of the multinationals had guys move home (Home being in another country) and are struggling to get them back. There is also a shortage of half decent workers at the moment that's exasperating the problem. (There's plenty of idiots)

Out of interest, can I ask why you moved to the country, were you renting, are you from the country and what's your age bracket? 20-30, 30-40 etc

[Deleted User]

Unless you join since 2020, there is very unlikely any mention of work at home in contract. The idea I can unilaterally decide to move away and expect the person paying my salary to accommodate is outrageous

MarkR

You can ask, and if they say no, start looking for another job. That's a out it really.

global23214124

My job has quite good benefits so I'm trying to wriggle out of 4 days a week in the office as I thought it might be easier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040489#Comment_120040489

I've been renting down the country and I'm in the 30-40 age range.

global23214124

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040768#Comment_120040768

They have continued to pay the salary though and I don't think its outrageous given that the goalposts have moved in terms of there is now a culture of working from home. I'm a fairly skilled worker and It would take a few months to train someone in to do what I do so I'm hoping I might get a bit of wiggle room if I put up a fuss. I know I'm not indispensable though so I'll keep looking elsewhere too.

Vestiapx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040801#Comment_120040801

Would you take a pay cut to be allowed wht days a week? the rent savings would make it possaible i imagine.

global23214124

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041229#Comment_120041229

Probably yeah if that idea was floated.

Dodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040036#Comment_120040036

This nonsense again? Plenty of places have full WFH and more have majority WFH and lots of people get promoted from those availing of WFH. Productivity is easily enough measured for those working on site, in office or from home in most jobs

This has nothing to do with the OP’s issue though. If your company is requesting you to be in an office, your choices are to be in the office, or leave the job.

global23214124

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040160#Comment_120040160

Can I ask what kind of industry this would be in? Just curious. I work in technology so it would be easy to higher people I guess. We've had a couple of layoffs in another country but its very minimal compared to the likes of facebook and stripe for example.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120041477#Comment_120041477

If you're not going to the office and your colleagues are, then definitely, without a doubt you have less chance of advancement. You can call it nonsense to comfort yourself all you want, but being socially available and outgoing is more important when it comes to getting higher level positions. You can quietly do your job at home and hit all your targets, but ultimately unless you are irreplaceable (vast majority of people are replaceable) then they're not going to promote you if you opt to stay home because it just looks bad. They'll think you are good at the kind of job that doesn't require in-person interaction, which doesn't apply to high level positions.

Dodge

That’s not what you said though. You said you’d be worried if your company told you you could WFH permanently. I’m saying plenty of people do, and it does not effect their status in the company

Of course every company is different but a blanket “you won’t get promoted if you WFH” isn’t true. It may well be true in your place and in the OP’s place but it’s up to everyone to suss out their own company’s culture there

It’s immaterial in this case as the company want them in office and, IMO, that’s that.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039539#Comment_120039539

There’s no need for that. For instance, I’m Batman, and this is the Internet, where anyone can claim to be whomever and whatever they want, it’s irrelevant and doesn’t make their argument.

That being said…

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040019#Comment_120040019

It’s not quite so clear cut as that either. Certainly it’s discrimination, but whether the policy amounts to unlawful discrimination (be it either direct or indirect discrimination), is what matters. The employer should be able to demonstrate the legitimate aim of the policy, and the Acts permit positive action. The OP is not at any disadvantage because of their family status, they are at a disadvantage because of their proximity to their workplace. They are not being treated unfairly as all employees are subject to the same conditions, and those employees with children are not being treated unfairly either. That’s notwithstanding the fact that the OP doesn’t have children who they are responsible for, and other employees do, so their circumstances aren’t similar on the family status grounds either.

The last thing I’d recommend doing in the OP’s circumstances is to go claiming they are the victim of unlawful discrimination by their employer, and instead would suggest they sit down with their manager and try and work out a more reasonable and amicable solution. It’s a tough spot to be in, but there’s no need to make matters worse by being antagonistic towards their current employer.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040243#Comment_120040243

I would disagree with this, WFH is here to stay in one form or another and no company is going to discriminate on the basis that someone has children. The role can either be done from home or not and the employer will determine how much of that will be done remotely.

I have heard a few stories like the OP’s now, people packed up and headed down the country and thought they would wfh forever. It was always likely that most employers would want people back more and more as we got back to normality, if you get to work at home 2/3 days a week in general terms you’re probably doing ok overall