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teenagers no lights

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You’re never going to educate every cyclist to be the perfect cyclist, but many on this thread seem happy to take a victim blaming approach instead of dealing with the actual source of danger.

    If you actually want to reduce road deaths, focus on getting drivers to slow down and put their phones down, rather than targeting niche issues of negligible impact, like the proposed focus on cyclists lights.

    Cyclists should have lights after the hours of darkness. I’ve done the Dublin Cycling Campaign winter light giveaways a few times. I’m a big fan of dynamo lights. But this issue is very low on the list of priorities on the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,947 ✭✭✭cletus


    Except that you didn't say that there are more bikes without lights than cars without lights. You said there are more bikes without lights than cars without properly maintained lights.


    It's nothing to do with the 'bleedin obvious', it's to do with people simply making claims to back up what they are saying that are either unprovable, or untrue. Fact is, you've no idea of the figures either way. Neither has anyone else here.


    You'll no doubt come back and tell me again about how all cars have lights, but it's just deflection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    I've checked one eyed bandits a few times, it's always seems to be around 5% of motorists. Repeated sample size of 200 on national secondary roads at commuting hours



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Another thread saddled with cranks and tyred old fossils.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I got a few sets of those from the RSA a number of years ago. They really are sh1te and I don't understand how anyone ever thought they would be appropriate and was happy to sign off on them. That the Dublin Cycling Campaign are involved in giving them out is equally disappointing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The ones given out in recent years have been an improvement, larger and brighter than before.

    Why shouldn't the DCC get involved in distributing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    He means distributing bad lights.

    I mean they are better than nothing. Which is the point. But pretty poor at the same time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Who said it was the main cause? Not me. And let’s agree that common sense doesn’t require a published study. A cyclist with dark clothing and no lighting is far more likely to be hit by a passing car than one with lumens and reflectivity on their side (all other things being equal).

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    How is it wrong to say that a cyclist can reduce their chances of of being struck by a vehicle by making themselves easier to see?

    would it not be more correct to say both our points are correct, as you have simply added a new point after my comment? Unless you are just trying to be argumentative. In any case, I’d rather be a seen cyclist than a stain in the road because some unobservant driver couldn’t see me, in part thanks to a lack of lighting on my part.

    Stay Free



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Because if it's not the main cause why make it the main focus. We should prioritize the stuff that will make the most difference.

    It's not common sense. It's an assumption based on no study or research.

    The question is how do you get teenagers to obey the law to have lights that they deliberately ignore. In the same way your ignoring the forum rules and mod instructions. How do we get either you or the teens to adhere to the rules.

    Teens are mostly cycling around urban environments so well lit up with street lights they can be seen from space. You've mobile lights (cars) with some of the best lights we ever seen.

    When asked for examples of this causing problems did someone give an example of someone hitting a light (lamp post)?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The ones shown in the article photo are the ones I received...

    I'll stand by my claim - they're sh1te! DCC should be encouraging the national safety body to be issuing lights that are actually of use rather than some kind of McDonalds toy.

    I believe that people will use them thinking that they will be seen by drivers but light from them is so low that they are pointless but the cyclist believes that they are lit up. These poor lights create a false impression that you are lighting yourself up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's wrong because it's the wrong thing to focus on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,966 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    when was the last time a cyclist was even killed at night? for all the talk of hi vis and lights, even without them i think most drivers can see cyclists



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    DCC should be encouraging the national safety body to be issuing lights that are actually of use rather than some kind of McDonalds toy.

    dublin cycling campaign should rebrand themselves so they don't share an acronym with the body they probably have more dealings with than any other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They are the ones I got.

    I've picked up €2 lights which are better.

    I'd be interested in seeing what other ones they've given out. However I assume the main issue is raising the issue rather supplying lights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    That's very true. If it was just young fellas, I'd understand. Lights can get stolen a fair bit, but basic lights can be carried in a coat pocket or aren't expensive or lock the bike in a better spot. Quite a lot of the food delivery bikes don't have lights. Cycling night ninjas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The ones given out by DLR Cycling last year were bigger and better than those. I think you can see the bigger ones in this video.


    There's no light or hi-vis that reduces your chances of being seen by this driver;


    I never cease to be amazed by the enthusiasm to 'fix' cyclists and cycling by telling them what to wear, where to go, what to do, compared to the passive silence when it comes to motorists.

    If you want to reduce road deaths and injuries for ALL road users, focus on getting drivers to slow down and put their phones down and put their drinks down. Any time, effort and energy spent on telling cyclists what to wear is a distraction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They look better alright.

    At this point though there's no telling people the issue isn't cyclists (mostly). It's just easier to give priory and segregation to cyclists with cycle lanes and removing car lanes. They are doing that even if the implementation are lackluster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    It’s not just teenagers though. It’s not on schools to educate the teenagers it’s parents. When I have my teenager in the front seat I often point out dangerous behaviour from other road users so that he can apply that knowledge when he is a pedestrian or cycling. I also tell him not to trust cars to stop a pedestrian crossings even if he as a pedestrian has right of way. Being in the right is no good to you if you get hurt.

    Adults are cycling around with no lights and/or no high vis. At this time of year with the weather we have had lights are also very important in the day time. How stupid would you have to be not to. The more lit up you are the further away drivers can see you it’s not rocket science.

    Is there reckless drivers who don’t take care around cyclists…yes. But many of us will happily slow down approaching a cyclist.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    and there's an argument to be made that what is lacking here, in terms of both addressing the issue of cyclists cyling without lights, and of cyclist safety in general, is simple enforcement of traffic law in general.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,544 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Mod voice: Banned for ignoring repeated mod instructions



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    MOD VOICE: As per previous mod warnings, if you mention Hi Vis you will get a ban, do not mention it in this thread again, even glancingly, there is a mega thread for it. Any discussion via PM.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Exactly. Cyclists without lights is Garda issue. It's already law.

    Trying to influence teens. Well good luck with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,623 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    This is hilarious. "teenagers wearing black at night on their bikes with no lights, I see them all the time!"

    As a taxi driver said to me about a e-scooter rider one night "look at him, you can't see him"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's a rural road i'm on quite regularly (both driving and cycling) and most of it is unlit. i've seen cyclists cycling on it at night, with no lights, on several occasions, and i struggle to understand how they don't come a cropper simply from not being able to see where they're going.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,623 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Good drivers with strong headlights and blind luck.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i mean when there were no drivers around; ythey'd barely be able to see where they were going; cars would make it safer for them in a sense!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,899 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I was curious why things you'd think are dangerous don't seem to cause accidents. But when you think about it cars have powerful lights. Also in studies drivers give cyclists with no lights etc. more space than cyclists with lights etc. Which is counter intuitive until you think about it.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    You'd be surprised how well your eyes adjust without artificial light around, you can't go as fast but you can definetly get around reasonably safely provided there is no one speeding. Would I do it, of course not, but its not as difficult to see as you might think. This said, I go at a speed where I wouldn't be comfortable, other road users aside, without them.



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