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Child Item

Santa

Marymoore

First of all: what age do kids tend to stop believing in Santa? For parents who have kids, when did yours stop

second: how much do parents spend on average per child? I hear some parents going overboard spending loads and others complaining and buying 1 thing… just want to get an idea

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Jim_Hodge

Both the age and spend vary considerably. If you get them to 5th class it seems you're doing well nowadays. As for spend, what others spend is immaterial . Go with what you can comfortably afford. The best gifts are rarely the most expensive ones.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891894#Comment_119891894

The best gifts are always the most expensive. Just keeping it real! It's not like price and quality don't matter. They do.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891908#Comment_119891908

I've seen many kids get more fun and use from, and talk more about, the lessor presents Santa left them.

freshpopcorn

I think a lot stop believing between 4th and 5th class unless there's a loud mouth in the class.

There's always the idiot who give the kid a Smyths Catalogue and lets them circle everything and it all has to bought.

However with lots of parents one year might be expensive if they want a bike or a device.

However another year it can be a collection of cheaper items.

Gregor Samsa

They know before you know they know. And for a while they live in a nebulous mental world where they still believe despite knowing. My eldest definitely knew by 5th class, probably before, but couldn’t shake the enjoyment of magic and kept a certain level of the belief. By 6th she 100% knew, and I think she even physically picked out one of her presents, but because she has two younger sisters we let it be known that Santa keeps coming while you’re in Primary school. And she still kept up an excitement about Santa despite 100% knowing. (We don’t give parent presents on top of the Santa ones, so it wasn’t like she was getting anything extra).

I notice a strange thing about the Easter Bunny. We never had the concept of the EB giving kids eggs at all in our house. It wasn’t a thing for me or my wife growing up, and we never introduced it.

Yet my kids picked up on it somewhere along the line. But despite me asking them each Easter what egg they’d like while we’re in the supermarket, and me buying them right in front of them, and bringing them home, and telling them they’ll be left out in the dining room table for them, so they don’t have to wake me up at feckin 6am looking for chocolate, they still believe in the Easter Bunny and come running up to me at five last 6 all excited telling me what the Easter Bunny brought them.

I think the gap between belief and knowledge in children’s minds is more complicated than we often think.

knucklehead6

My little lad gets one present from Santa. He gets a couple from me and Mrs KH but he knows to only expect one Santa gift. It’s about the only way we could think of to put a reasonable limit on his expectations

rob316

I think I was about 10. I'd be surprised in such an information world now it could be kept up passed that.

Princess Calla

Spending depends on the age of the child. As they get older presents tend to get more expensive.

I tend to work on one "big" present and then smaller ones. I try to keep the cost within 150 per child...so that might be one big Lego set around €70-80 and then books, crafty stuff etc.

They are getting close to the console age and games so I know presents will increase in cost probably from next year onwards.

The thing is, kids have no concept of money, so a toy in a massive box that costs 20 will probably be as cherished as the toy in the smaller box that cost 200.

Just don't go into debt over a few gifts.....that road leads nowhere good!

Gregor Samsa

As for the cost, that entirely depends. One of my younger two took up drum lessons, and we had no problem in Santa getting her a decent electronic drum set, which she uses daily. Wouldn’t spend anything near that on toys.

FoxForce5

Santy is the last magic left in a cold logical world. If you have kids who believe enjoy every second of it.

Beasty

Spoilers!!

There are quite a few on here you will upset with such a claim

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119893280#Comment_119893280

St Nicholas of Myra was buried in Jerpoint Abbey, County Kilkenny in 1300.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119893268#Comment_119893268

“All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.”

― Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119893268#Comment_119893268

We all need that "bit of magic" in some way. Love in action it is. Outside normality.

Mrs OBumble

Smart kids don't let on, ever.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058272348/santa

We do not / did not do the Santa thing with any of our kids who currently range from 1ish to 12ish.

So it is interesting to hear their feedback over the years on the kids who do have it. From these anecdotes it sounds like most kids stop believing a lot earlier than their parents might think. At which point a funny two way system starts where the parents are doing everything they can to keep the kids believing - while the kids are doing everything they can to convince those parents it is working.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119893268#Comment_119893268

Hardly :) There is so much wonder to be found in our world both in the realms of what is real and what is imaginary. You just have to learn how and where to look for it. And often having children - with their fresh eyes and innate curiosity and wonder - can augment and improve that experience both for you and for them when you work together on it.

yourdeadwright

What i will say is when your kids are younger try your best to not spend a fortune on them,

You can talk them into whatever you want to get them from Santa & they are as happy as Larry ,, They usual only play with 2 or 3 things & that's it so most of the stuff they get will just go to waste, The older they get is when they start asking for bigger more expensive stuff so it'll come down the line,

Jinglejangle69

A lot of the kids in my 6 year olds class who aren’t religious and the parents don’t do Xmas told the whole class there is no Santa.

6 ffs.

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119900868#Comment_119900868

They're just non-believers, pay no attention, we're not religious but Santa still calls, he has little to nothing to do with Religeon now, he's bigger than that.

Our eldest stopped believing around the 5-6the class mark (11-12) they didn't let on until after Christmas though, his younger brother (11 syas he believes which is good enough for me).

General Santa spend varies, we try to match number of presents each but it's usually around €3-500 each, that could be a big present, bike, playstation ans some smaller gifts, while I like the idea of kids preferring the smaller gifts that's just not reality, the bikes and PS have gotten more use and been enjoyed more in the last year than any of the others.

Mammy and Daddy give then one big present and some smaller gifts each as well.

Wanderer78

why would you wanna stop believing in santie!!!!

griffin100

Christmas looses a bit of its magic when there are no believers left in the house. When my kids were younger we had 4 hyped up excited babies running around the house on Christmas morning full of wonder and delight. The photos we have are priceless.

This year we have the last of them who’s 11 and speaks about Santa whist winking at me! I remember my old boss telling me that when there’s no Santa in the house Christmas just becomes a week or two of overeating and drinking. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s not going to be the same.

[Deleted User]

Agreed. If you rely on Santa to bring magic to Christmas then by definition when the believing stops you are going to lose that magic. And as your ex-boss pointed out, this can lead to Christmas being nothing but eating and drinking - unless you have or can find something else to center your Christmas on instead.

It is one of the many reasons I decided not to do the Santa thing with my own children who currently range from age 1ish to age 12ish.

Christmas is a big period in our calendar and a big thing in our house. But we have anchored our magic and excitement and enjoyment in things that will not pass with time - or dissipate with belief. Everything we do are things that will be just as doable and enjoyable in 5 years as it will be in 50 years.

Of course food and drink is part of all that - as well it should be - but there is so much more than that.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901118#Comment_119901118

I don't have kids but the eldest of my nieces is starting to have her doubts, and her sisters are close in age. Hate the thought of it ending - it's really so fleeting! 😥

freshpopcorn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119901155#Comment_119901155

Just out of interest what do you actually do with the kids?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119902111#Comment_119902111

For Christmas specifically? Think that is probably one of those things you will be sorry you asked cos I will go on a bit :) Well in recent years we have been growing and caring for our own Christmas Trees and Geese. So for us the entire Christmas thing starts months/years before any actual Christmas. It's a thing we are working on and looking forward to in some form or another for almost the entire year.

A bit closer to the time we work together to handmake a new Christmas Tree decoration. I work with them on this to make it unique and memorable and an experience. Then when we actually dress the tree and we are taking out each decoration from years past we have a years long trip down memory lane as we remember the experience of making each one and the funny things that happened at the time and memories of that Christmas. I find this way of going over each Christmas again each year cements the memories in their minds so they remember their first Christmas almost as clearly as the most recent one. My hope is their memories will last in this way forever, distinct and clear. We also always go out hunting for the materials to make a wreath.

We also go a bit over board on the actual decoration of the house inside and outside. Tends to be quite the project and they are usually all in on it. We go a bit nuts on this like you'd probably see in the US more than usually see in Ireland. Usually try to find a Christmas Pantomime somewhere to attend too.

Around closer to the time we also try to get involved in some community and charity work especially around the hungry and homeless and addictions. I find it important in a time of excess and indulgement that they remember and even help those less well off than us. So there is a few things we get involved in around this time of year onwards that allows us to give back what we can to those around us.

Very close to Xmas day itself we also do the rounds visiting and bringing baked goodness to some of the elderly around our area who do not get many or any visitors. Having a bit of a mini Christmas with each of those before the main one at home. We are a bit mad for the baking in our house and every gets involved and messy. We also make a Gingerbread house each year. We are getting better at that. A lot of Singing and Christmas FM involved there too and we try to get involved in any singing that is going on in the community in- or outdoors.

In general though the actual period of Christmas itself is entirely focused on forming memories and being with the kids. It is all about giving them as much of our time and focus as possible and making it all about them. This became important to me personally when I noticed how many parents were relying on Santa's presents to do the baby sitting for them and just spent the entire Christmas trying to get their kids to just bugger off and play with them :) The parents just wanted to be left alone it seemed so they could relax and for me personally that would be wasted time and a missed chance to form real and lasting memories. Kids love presents but more than that they love getting their parents attention and time. So for that week of the year I ensure it is clear to my kids that we are entirely theirs in every way. What we get up to and how tends to be entirely under their control at that point.

And we bring a lot of family over and make feasts and the like. Quite food orientated here given my obsession with cooking. Always focus heavily on getting the friends and family over that the kids have not seen in awhile or who they genuinely want to be there.

Graces7

taxAHcruel that is utterly lovely! You bless your family and community mightily.

I never remember actually believing in Father Christmas. ( English nomenclature!) Hope he does not hear that as the chiimney here is so narrow he would get stuck.. A quiet, solitary season starting here on Sunday.. Which is good too..

freshpopcorn

@[Deleted User]@[Deleted User]

Thanks for the reply.

BaywatchHQ

I had big doubts aged 9 then had stopped believing at 10, I was too high IQ for that business. Those fake Santa clauses with the elastic beards didn't help matters.

The culture in my area is for parents to make sure their child knows the Christmas before starting secondary school. The school age structure is July to June births in the same school class. So someone born in July 2011 would have had an extra year of Santa gifts than someone born June 2012 even though they were in the same class. This was the case with my class mates as I was oldest in the class.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119905124#Comment_119905124

To be honest that sounds magic & fair play for you putting in the effort its something we do ourselves & its completely worth it ,

If i could give you just one little suggestion to make it even more magic & memorable for them , there's just one thing that you could add to really top it all off.. SANTA

PS .... Obviously its your own family so do as you please & it sounds lovey & you seems lovely yourself so I'm not trying to offend you in anyway ,

[Deleted User]

No offense at all :) It is just not for me. For quite a number of reasons. I have no issue with anyone who does do the Santa thing. So it's funny when you are worried about causing offense. No one has ever offended me on the topic. But a lot of people in the past have become offended by my choices. On this forum alone I had one person call it child abuse - and another person claimed they were leaving the forum and never coming back because I was an example of the evil sick people who post here :)

But for example I swore I would do everything in power never to lie to my children ever. So straight away that rules out doing the Santa thing. It simply is not an option for me under those ideals.

I have always taught them to view gifts - giving and receiving - as being a deeply meaningful and precious act. So just having presents magically appear out of nowhere kinda goes against that too.

I also teach them that every person and child is of equal worth. The issue with the Santa thing is that Santa then inexplicably brings some kids many presents or top expensive presents. While other kids get little to nothing. Like the boy from the poor side of the tracks in the Polar Express movie. If my kids believed in Santa what would this disparity say about my claims that children have equal inherent worth? I do not want to paper mache over the concept of privilege.

Also we have a very deep tradition of imagination and fantasy in our family. From literature to games to creativity - we heavily nurture fantasy and imagination here in our house. And it is important to me to instill in them the knowledge that we can engage in imagination without having to believe something is actually true. Imagination is itself inherently beautiful and important without belief.

Other than that I was always put off emotionally and morally by how Santa was used as a disciplinary and control tool over children - or as blackmail. False magic takes away for me personally from the real magic of the Christmas time. And I think there is nothing in my concept of "the true meaning of christmas" that can be found in the Santa package.

So all in all it is just not for me. That it works for other people and they get joy and magic from it - makes me happy though. Long may it/they continue!