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Why should I care about Climate Change while China has 43 New Coal Fired Power Stations in the works

Apothic_Red

https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-power-plants-emissions/

So this whole thing is a farce, 43 new Moneypoints in build or ready to go.

At the same time we are winding down our coal generation.

I am no climate change denier, I believe in the science, I believe in thew urgency.

When I read reports like this it just makes me want to throw the dog **** in the recycling bin out of spite, what are we really doing

I've about 30 years left on this rock, touch wood, rest of you are f*cked

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Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755884#Comment_119755884

I know where you're coming from. A lot of the onus has been pushed to individuals to reduce their carbon footprint (I think the fossil fuel companies actually invented this term to distract from being held accountable themselves)

It's a massive global scale problem. It won't be solved by individual action. It requires states to implement policies that mean the easiest most sensible choices that citizens make are also compatible with our climate change goals.

The national fleet of cars won't electrify overnight. Homes won't all move to electric heating at the same time. The electricity grid won't be all renewable overnight. The most impact a citizen can have is to let our politicians know that meaningful action on climate change is a top priority.

Ireland are actually in a privileged position. We have, for the first time in our history, an opportunity to become an energy exporting country. Given the precarious nature of global oil and gas supplies, we should be speeding up our plans to build offshore wind farms and the interconnectors necessary to fully exploit these resources

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754303#Comment_119754303

So basically what you're saying is

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058267763/why-should-i-care-about-climate-change-while-china-has-43-new-coal-fired-power-stations-in-the-works

There is no point caring or doing anything while China, India, Russia and others will do nothing but increase their CO2 output. Ireland's contribution to anthropogenic CO2 is 0.3%, so anything we do amounts to diddly squat of nothing. Wake me up when the ecologically conscious, greener than green Norwegians leave their fossil fuels in the ground and stop exporting every CC of the stuff they can locate. Currently they are hard at it looking for more while the whole world looks on and oohs and ahhs at how many EV's they drive, envious of the positive eco-cred they get from being the worst eco-hypocrits on the planet.

Basically, we have to pay carbon taxes to make up for the billions who don't. There is something wrong with that logic, and I think I know what it is.

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756324#Comment_119756324

The EU are already factoring in the "offshoring" of carbon intensive manufacturing under the proposed "Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism".

Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism (europa.eu)

It'll see anything imported from outside the EU taxed under carbon tax rules as if it were produced within the EU.

It'll only hit Steel, Iron, Concrete, Fertilisers, Aluminium and Electricity to begin with but they're looking to extend it to everything by as early as 2026.

So while it'll quickly see the end of all the cheap tat, well insofar as it won't be cheap anymore, the law of unintended consequences always has a habit of producing a kicker:

The promise of much cheaper EV's from Chinese manufacturers to help speed the transition from ICE - they won't be so cheap anymore
Most of our solar panels and inverters are made outside the EU - hit with carbon taxes
Heat pumps - ditto
Wide range of everyday consumer goods - clothing, electronics, even components - all hit.

If the EU is an important enough market to those countries, we might be fighting a noble cause, albeit paying through the nose for it until those countries "green-up" their manufacturing.

If they decide they can do without the EU market, or the EU has no choice but to buy their product anyway, well pollution continue on as before, and we're stuck paying an inflated price due to the carbon taxes applied.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756184#Comment_119756184

The carbon footprint concept is related to and grew out of the older idea of ecological footprint, a concept invented in the early 1990s by Canadian ecologist William Rees and Swiss-born regional planner Mathis Wackernagel at the University of British Columbia.

Why oh why are greens so hell bent on carbon taxes in the intervening time? Punishing people - mostly the poor, for being not financially adept to change cars, heating systems, homes, etc...

This is total and utter scutter. The wind doesn't blow all the time and thus are not guaranteed 95+% performance from these sources, which is the level a modern electricity grid needs to run at. Otherwise factories and plant closes down and relocates to where power is guaranteed.

We have to use gas or nuclear as a back up. For Ireland that means gas because the krusty tree huggers drove the fear of God into Ireland over Nuclear in the late 70s.

Another wonderful shower of see you next Tuesdays in the EU decided that marginal pricing for electricity was in our interests meaning that if just 1 ounce of gas was burnt to make electricity in Ireland then all other sources have to cost the same as this gas.

i.e. If 1% of power comes from gas and 99% from renewables, your energy bill would be the exact same if it were 99% gas + 1% renewables.

The whole green agenda is one giant bend-over and take it.

joseywhales

There is a common ground that can satisfy everyone a little bit. Practical measures like localizing production where possible instead of massive importation of all commodities and goods. I think most people would be happy with that. Not only can we reduce carbon but we can make all countries more resilient to global disruption and reduce contagion risk. I feel like somehow the extreme globalist mantra may have shot itself in the foot by not accounting for risk adequately. The pandemic really showed this in a big way. Still basically years later we are struggling with supply chain. We definitely need a hedge against to much inter dependence while still benefiting from region specific specialization.

archer22

China is the worlds manufacturing hub, so of course it's going to have high emissions.

Somebody is going to have to manufacture what the world uses.

Does anybody think the west can manufacture what it uses with lower emissions!, and given that Europes biggest issue this winter is simply keeping the lights on.

Also are people prepared to pay the high prices of goods manufactured in the west..it will come as a hell of a shock to their systems!.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756651#Comment_119756651

While not referenced directly in your post, there is a relationship to a major God damn issue with taxing emissions: Does the producer pay or does the consumer pay?

It seems the greenie way is to shaft both the consumer and the producer in Ireland and across the EU in general while China can produce, consume and emit without any penalties.

You've no level playing pitch to make manufacturing in Ireland and the EU viable. So, the choice for the green supporters - do you tax the bejaysus out of non-EU goods on import, or do you slash the taxes on goods produced here?

Looking at the Mercosur deal and the general actions of greenies I wouldn't ever expect anything beyond more taxes for the locals and free trade deals with the most environmentally damaging nations.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756468#Comment_119756468

Wind turbine support towers largely come from China. Don't worry, there will likely be massive lobbying by green interests to exclude all the green bits from the tariffs, even if thay are all made using coal power.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756492#Comment_119756492

British Petroleum, the second largest non-state owned oil company in the world, with 18,700 gas and service stations worldwide, hired the public relations professionals Ogilvy & Mather to promote the slant that climate change is not the fault of an oil giant, but that of individuals. It’s here that British Petroleum, or BP, first promoted and soon successfully popularized the term “carbon footprint” in the early aughts. The company unveiled its “carbon footprint calculator” in 2004 so one could assess how their normal daily life – going to work, buying food, and (gasp) traveling – is largely responsible for heating the globe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/23/big-oil-coined-carbon-footprints-to-blame-us-for-their-greed-keep-them-on-the-hook

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754589#Comment_119754589

You cited a paper from 2013?

I question the methodology given how ubiquitous ‘the cloud’ is and how many devices besides phones access it. It’s not talking about the actual phone itself.

The US consumes an estimated 389 billion kWh for residential cooling while just 70 billion kWh powers the Internet.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=1174&t=3

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2016/06/28/how-much-electricity-does-it-take-to-run-the-internet/

And if we look on that pie for refrigeration knowing the space cooling slice is 389 billion kWH - I just don’t see how the internet eclipses those values. And that’s for all devices not just phones. Dare say the claim that phones use more energy than refrigerators is bunk. Thanks thermodynamics

But of course if people think it’s a problem stop posting because according to some people this post used the same energy as baking a chicken or something?

Overheal

Worlds richest man sells his private jet so climate activists don’t have a flight transponder to track on Twitter. Instead he says he’s switching to rentals.

https://gizmodo.com/bernard-arnault-private-jet-twitter-louis-vuitton-1849666300

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756324#Comment_119756324

0.3% of emissions and only 0.06% of population.

Danno

https://twitter.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1581908401797627904?s=20&t=laBIWoRXU5w64W4BllebKg

https://twitter.com/_paigemundy/status/1581914134639017989?s=20&t=laBIWoRXU5w64W4BllebKg

Out of touch greenies strike again. 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755413#Comment_119755413

The people throwing soup at priceless art, I have no issue with them.

Same people - have you an issue with what they're at now?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757321#Comment_119757321

Rumor mill has it many of these ‘climate activists’ ruining artwork and store fronts just before the midterms for some apparent reason is actually a big oil AstroTurf job to incite the kind of sentiments against climate action that you are demonstrating.

Igotadose

it's too late to do anything about it. We're in a feedback cycle due to the staggering amount that's stored in the ocean - as it warms up, more is released into the atmosphere. Far more is sequestered in the ocean than is emitted annually

Want to do one thing to mitigate the crisis? Don't have children. It's people that cause the carbon to be released into the atmosphere. Fewer people, lower emissions.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757274#Comment_119757274

What do you expect in a frigid country where the average annual temperature is just 9.3°C?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757321#Comment_119757321

Nope. I have huge respect for these protesters.

The disruption that climate change is already causing absolutely dwarfs the disruption caused by these protesters

And this student nurse not getting paid for today, I feel bad for her but civil disobedience and non violent direct action are the only forms of protest that have had an effect. If it wasn't for the Sufferagettes being extremely disruptive and putting their lives and liberty on the line, and hunger striking while incarcerated, women may never have achieved the right to vote

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757361#Comment_119757361

Big oil money too.

Aileen Getty, the granddaughter of the Getty Oil founder, is the founding donor of the Climate Emergency Fund (CEF), a Los Angeles-based organization that finances several high-profile climate protest groups around the world. Getty, who is a prolific environmental philanthropist, wired $500,000 to CEF shortly after it was founded in 2019, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757383#Comment_119757383

Better responsibility and less whataboutery? Is that too much to ask?

No matter what way you spin it, Irish people are responsible for a disproportionate amount of emissions while we blame China when they emit less per capita than us. A never-ending circle of finger pointing and passing the buck, while the people with the lowest emissions are the ones most vulnerable to climate change.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757400#Comment_119757400

"I feel bad for her."

Depending on her situation your sympathy might not be enough.

The real question becomes what is the acceptable cost of these protests having an effect?

Somebody who is struggling not getting the money they need is already acceptable, we've established that with this post. Is her patients not getting the care they need and acceptable cost?

I'd be interested to see where the line is drawn? Let's say a protest costs 10 people their lives, is this an acceptable cost for the protests to achieve their goals? 100 lives? 1,000 lives?

I don't see how anyone gets to say that it's fine for the student nurse to be prevented from getting to work when we haven't really asked if she consents to being in that situation. We've basically said "the protestors goals are more important that your well being so please accept our condolences and go away."

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757361#Comment_119757361

Did Q tell you that.

We soup one. We soup all.

Listen to the accents, cut glass English accent, private school and the best of them at that I'd say.

Rich kid activists being knobs, no conspiracy.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757361#Comment_119757361

So, what you are saying is that establishment & corporate based interests will execute false flag operations to ultimately get what they want? Jayzus man, to coin a popular phrase up in here - I think there is a forum for dat ----------->

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756651#Comment_119756651

China is a manufacturing hub, it's not the world's manufacturing hub, Western Europe and America still make as much combined, then add in all the modern developed nations, up on double China's manufacturing now.

China still produces more carbon.

Most of China's dirty carbon is used in electricity production.

Yes the West produces much cleaner, the environment is a big thing for us now, it's only becoming a concern in China because Of the extreme pollution.

Even India produces more cleanly.

Thelonious Monk

It's just the same people discussing these issues on boards.ie so I don't even see the point in it any more, yet here I am.

So China are wrecking the place, and people think why should we bother. The Communist conference or whatever was the other day in China and Xi did set out an agenda to move to Green energy and even mentioned biodiversity.

We in Europe can say f*ck it and do nothing but that just means we'll all bed led to ruin sooner rather than later. The way we consume is not sustainable and will have to change through lack of resources or whatever sooner or later, regardless of what China are doing. Look at how bad oceans are, wildlife, everything. All the metrics are just awful.

Surely if you have kids or care about the future you know we must change our ways eventually?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757758#Comment_119757758

The sufferagettes blocked streets. Martin Luther King had sit ins and unauthorised marches that blocked streets. Ghandi used mass strikes and marches intended at causing as much disruption as he could.

These Climate protests are using the Non Violent Civil Disobedience techniques that MLK and Ghandi advocated for.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757858#Comment_119757858

I understand that but how have we concluded that whatever happens to this random nurse as a consequence of these actions it is all acceptable if it helps us achieve a goal?

She doesn't get a say in this at all?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757776#Comment_119757776

Fox News?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/big-oil-heiress-funding-just-stop-oil-group-threw-soup-van-gogh-painting?intcmp=tw_fnc

Is she a Tiffany or an Ivanka behind the curtains?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757858#Comment_119757858

Yes and all this abuse they get about being middle class etc. I can't think of many movements that weren't led by educated middle class people. Daniel O'Connell, Wolfe Tone, Gandhi, Che Guevera, people who started the RSPCA etc. were all looney lefty middle/upper class folk.

People on the breadline are too busy putting food on the table to worry about stuff like this.

buried

The west needs to get over its addiction to Materialism. That's all that needs to be done. But the establishment in western nations, such as ours in Ireland, will simultaneously order us to virtually signal non-consume one weekend, but then the very next weekend order you to go out and purchase every plastic piece of junk ridden trash thrown out.

We will see this hypocritical clown show here in full effect in a couple of weeks with "The late late toy show". Then you will get the "The late late green show" in January to make you feel like a right simp.