How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
It was supposed to be ratified yesterday. I assume there's some official processes to follow for implementation in the next 4 to 8 weeks
I don't think you realise what inflation is. If your salary buys you less than the previous year then it is effectively a real pay cut.
Plenty are getting pay rises of inflation and above in the private sector. Income tax receipts are up 16% although i appreciate that is not evenly spread.
Private sector wages are not increasing in line with inflation. That is a myth. I know plenty people working various jobs in the prave sector and noe that I am aware of have received more than 2 to 3 percent increase this year, some have received nothing and a small number have been made redundant. You may find some isolated examples but they are not the norm.
I am very aware of what inflation is and very aware of what a pay cut is.
Income tax receipts are not a gauge of individualised wages in any sector.
most inflation in the Irish economy is imported in any case. we're not a closed system and spikes in energy and supply chain shocks from the various well-discussed events going right back from brexit through suez blockage let alone covid and now ukraine all impact far more than wage inflation.
its a red herring, across either of public or private sector, to raise scares about the effect of wage increases on the wider economy.
if i ever see a poster at it i always wonder what kind of tone id see them take in threads about final crashes caused by rampant speculation or poor governance (always blamed on authorities and never on the profit-chasing lobbying companies ofc)
they're hardly ever the same posters you see criticising financial impropriety in the private sector nor crisis/extractive profiteering so the agenda as always is pretty clear.
wages *should* chase inflation and the waged classes should visit electoral havoc on any political party who dares state otherwise. anything less than such a demand is a statement that we are here to serve the cause of profit and hey lads im here for the craic and ill do my week's work but after that, im not your guy sorry
More BS. Pay rates and pay increases are exactly the same whether one is a union member or not.
Anecdotes are not data.
What data have you provided? Zero relevant data from what I can see.
If every private sector worker were getting pay increases to match inflation businesses would be closing left right and centre.
I don't think I mentioned non union members in my post, but do carry on. 🤣
Au contraire, the plural of anecdote is data.
If your standpoint really is, all private sector workers have received payrises in line with inflation this year and will do again next - you need to to take a long hard look at your critical thinking skills.
I'm sorry, wages should chase inflation? I'm not sure what you mean? What about chasing deflation?
If I took you up wrong, I will of course apologise
More money when things are crap, keep stumm when things are good?
And I am PS.
Asking for data is a side step. Private sector companies, I can only talk for tech roles, are going to shed roles soon. No keeping up with regards to inflation. That's a fact.
I totally agree.
Coffee shops, restaurants and pubs are beginning to close left right and centre as well. In January when the revenue warehousing period from COVID expires things will no doubt take a downward turn.
And yet you have people who genuinely think private sector workers are getting payrises to match inflation.
Jesus wept.
ive no idea what you're saying here, sorry
over what period is the thing kippy.
private sector wages (obviously sectoral etc etc etc considerations need to be factored) have been on the up for years, often ahead of inflation and the affect is cumulative.
picking a current year, one many feel might be the beginning of a downturn, and using the exceptional inflation in that one year to refute a *multi-year* pay deal is overly dismissive imo
maybe few enough workers are getting 8-10% (i can tell you now that in tech it *definitely* isnt none and from what i can see its actually not at all uncommon tho) this year but plenty of ppl in private sector have enjoyed a couple of percent rises above what we were managing to get out of govt *every year* since 2014 and the case for ours being fairly labelled recovery not increase have all already been made.
its impossible to compare like for like ofc but over the period of the last decade id say it's actually a very clear case to show that the sectors of the private sphere that are most suitably compared to most public sector work have seen wage growth far in excess of our side.
inflation, in that case, should be something to demand parity with at the very least imo and if that seem ridiculous to some in current straits its not in my view at all unreasonable, because otherwise as ive said its just more acceptance that out terms and conditions continue on a downward trend against every relevant measure
we are always either still coming out of or just about to go into an economic phase which means we shouldnt get real term pay rises
id imagine many public sector workers must be fairly sick of hearing one or the other by now, its fifteen years old by now
My comment is pretty much what you said to me in your previous comment. I am also PS!
I would disagree with wages rising with inflation unless they go down when inflation drops. And I like a wage increase. I'd just leave if I feel my monetary worth is not as I see it.
i think we had a guy here for several hundred posts who sought the same and id be in agreement to an extent.
of course we took a 15% effective pay cut in the last crash so its not a moot question at all.
what id say is more practical, taking into account our job security, is that *over the course of several multi year pay deals* public sector salaries mark the general growth in private sector, and/or inflation.
i can imagine circumstances where those two are radically different over short time spans but if inflation outstrips even private sector wages over an extended period of time then that doesnt mean we should accept the same- theres no war but a class war!
note (edit) i dont seek parity in terms of amounts, im talking general growth shouldnt be way off either because that would inarguably be a dropping of standards of remuneration against the two most meaningful markers and why on earth would that be seen as something to argue for or accept?)
Two things the vote shows:
1. The vast vast majority of PS workers thought this a good deal (Over 90% in every Union I've seen). Therefore the idea that a subsection of the PS, say COs, didn't think it a good deal isn't sustainable.
2. Those earlier in this thread who said there was discontent with the deal or said it might be voted down were either lying, being lied to, or are just completely out of touch with public sector workers.
This Govt tried to scare monger people into accepting this pay offer and using the restoration of the Haddington Road agreement as a carrot as if they were doing everyone a favour . Not every area in the Civil Service have been given the option of having the pre HRA hours restored which is a disgrace
Actually the plural of "anecdote" is "bullshit".
You are making a claim. Substantiate it with something more than "a fella told me".
It's not up to me or anyone else to evidence your claims.
Exactly, the same old BS every time.
We need to stop signing up to pay "deals" which leave us poorer than before.
Or (3) they're cowed into it, and have zero faith in the ability of their union so-called leaders to actually do their job.
so you’re OK with some anecdotes as evidence then
Because the only data that matters is that 90% of the public service agreed to the deal. Some on here seem to think that it’s only the 10% that ‘thought’ about the ramifications of that, but frankly that’s obnoxious horse shite
As for wages, PS wages will never match some wages in the private sector. Nor should they really. There are other factors very much in favour of public sector workers
And for anyone who joined since 1995, there is no impediment to switching between private sector and public sector if you believe you’d be better off on the other side.
There are posters in here making claims that private sector workers are getting payrises in line with inflation with zero evidence. I am saying this isn't true and in many cases private sector workers are getting laid off. You want me to provide reports of layoffs?
The original poster I responded too was adamant that private sector workers were on the pigs back in relation to wage rises which is patently untrue.
So you think public sector works are simultaneously intimidated by their own Unions but also think them grossly incompetent?
It's a stretch, but you never know.
What are the factors very much in favour of public sector workers, the fact we can't be sacked?
That is a big one and at times more valuable than other times.
Of course Public Sector workers can be sacked. Yes it's difficult but it can be done.
In the Private Sector you can't just sack someone either. Proper disciplinary procedures have to be followed. It's also very difficult.
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