How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
You do realise that salaries/wages globally rise almost on an annual basis with little or no increase in 'productivity' globally ....
The blocklayer over the road from me has received a massive increase in wages, his per block rate has increased drastically over the past ten years despite his number of blocks laid per day remaining static (a relatively easy measure of 'productivity').
There are countless examples across every sector similar to this.
What do his employers get for increasing his salary?
Productivity is not the only metric wages can be linked to.
What do the state get if they don't pay their employees a fair wage?
Your view of salaries and productivity appears more institutionalised than my own tbh
Yet Public sector wages are 20% higher than the private sector, better to use tax as a measure to tackle inflation.
Agreed, a sliding ten percent pay rise across the board to the public sector graduated between ten percent for the lower grades to five percent at the higher grades actually works out as a far less net percentage to the state when salary related taxes and contributions are taken into account.
Going by some peoples thinking here we should be all on bobs, shilling and pence for our wages
The proposed measures will likely improve staff retention levels in the civil service. A robust and skilled workforce is required to deliver critical public services. It’ll also likely improve staff morale and as result productivity.
Additionally you state we would be paid more for doing the same job, if the pay rise is granted.
You are paying more now, compared to six months ago, for identical goods and services.
Why is that? Businesses have passed on the increased direct and indirect costs of providing the goods/services to the customer. This, in many cases, would include increased labour costs.
Same principle apply here, you pay an increased level of economic rent(taxes) for utilising state resources as a resident of the Republic of Ireland.
So Dublin bus get 15.5% , Irish rail have got 10.5%, Tesco staff have got 10%. Govt need to open the cheque book for public sector staff or face the consequences in September
11% for cost of living and 4.5 for productivity. Only the 11% is relevant here.
It is very interesting. Personally, I would vote against 11% over 5 years.
They’ll avoid large numbers leaving essential roles, nurses, teachers, prison officers, accountants, architects.
You keep citing this 20% premium. Based on CSO analysis, my understanding is that this premium has been eroded over time and in fact no longer existed for the majority in the public sector by 2018, in some cases they are paid far less than the private sector (depending on the methodology used).
Public sector employees are also more educated and skilled so it's apples and oranges.
Look at architects and solicitors, for example. Both are paid way less in the public sector than in the private sector.
Don't be ridiculous. Are you living in an alternative reality? People who become nurses, teachers etc don't just leave. They hang on doing the exact same thing day in and day out counting down the days to retirement, spending the tea breaks talking about AVCs and how hard they have it. Not exactly the cutting edge, risk taking, entrepreneurial sort willing to change jobs.
Even when leaving Dublin to go back to the mammy down the country, it's only to go do the exact same job, just somewhere else.
Brilliant. Now do army officers, economists, solicitors, barristers, architects and diplomats.
I can actually picture you sitting there having a childish giggle to yourself trying to just annoy people.
You are a sad pathetic individual
It's literally the defence all government employees leap to to try justify pay increases. They point out that private workers can jump between employers to boost salary and for some unknown reason, the option of switching employer is not an option to them.
NO the latest CSO still show a 20% pay differential between the 2 sectors. So your understanding is wrong
Look at table 1 under all sectors there is a comparison by the CSO on Public and private sector weekly wage and Public sector are 20% ahead.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq42021finalq12022preliminaryestimates/
horsesh1t. You lads can compare when you want benchmarking (twice), or the oh look at tesco getting a 10% pay rise I want one, why can we not compare ourselves to Tesco workers, its laughable. But then when actual figures wages show the public sector are paid 20% ahead the "ah the auld apples and oranges routine"
Indeed the same people who complain about the wages and conditions being better in the public sector have the same options should they chose.
The increment system is the civil service just about helped with normal inflation. With inflation up you're taking a pay cut or remaining stagnant. The tax intake is up because inflation is up and that base level of tax income will rise. It makes perfect sense for pay increases to be introduced.
The bulk of employed are lower administrative staff and they're definitely not paid enough. People here mention that the pay they receive falls better or in line with the private sector equivalent but they obviously have little understanding of what these roles entail. A few bad eggs or an old culture that has painted an image of twiddling thumbs and passing time on the job, but that couldn't be further from the truth now. They often work under extremely stressful conditions and often on tasks well above the job description.
Definitely wouldn't begrudge them an extra few quid in the pocket.
It didnt its hoop inflation ran at about 2% for the last 8 years or so before 2021/22 and per employee Public sector wages went up by at least 10% in that time frame and you have to take into consideration that in that 8 years or so that a goog % of public sector employees that would be at the end of the scale would of retired.
You're referring to the restoration of pay after the reduction during the financial crisis, that wasn't a pay increase if it was taken originally. I take a €10 from you and give you back €20, how much have I given you?
So, to the actual increases that occur, they roughly match normal inflation.
In the link you provided:
”While there is no internationally agreed methodology for assessing the public / private sector wage gap, the CSO has published analysis of the differential using a matched Labour Force Survey and P35 dataset for 2015-2018. This analysis took account of compositional differences between the public and private sector, such as occupational mix, sectors of activity, gender balance, union membership, etc. The public sector pay gap in 2018 was estimated to range from -3.8% to +0.1% depending on the specification applied and the treatment of the Pension Levy.”
That is, a simple “public sector earns 20% more than the private sector” does not take into account the differences between the two sectors. More detailed analysis comparing the differences is required, as carried out by the CSO previously. Until a new analysis is carried out the actual difference based on qualifications, experience etc. cannot be stated, unless your intention is to misrepresent the available information.
We couldnt afford the rates after the doubling of the public sector pay and pensions bill in the noughties with benchmarking and the likes and that was from an outside independent auditor (the IMF) who told us to get our house in order or no more loans. This sh1te of pay restoration was dreamed up by the unions. Fact is PS pay per person went up by at least 10% between 2014 (the year most experts agree the 2008 bust was completely behind us) and 2021 and inflation was at 2% why was there not a clamor from the unions for pay cuts to match inflation at that stage. I have given you the link for public sector and private sector weekly wage for Q1 2022 why are you a$$ing around with 2018 (out of date ) figures? Also to counter your argument the 20% figure also does not take into account guaranteed pension and job security what price should be put on both of these?
Your figures don't support your argument (again).
If inflation ran at 2% per annum for 8 years that's MORE than the 10% the wages went up.
Say you have €100. After 8 years of 2% interest that become €117.
10% over the same time ony gives you €110.
The trolls in here must be doing no work to deserve a payrise in the private sector. Looks like they have too much time on their hands regurgitating the same nonsense.
no it was 2 % for the whole period of the 8 years. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/inflation-rate-cpi
Seriously fliball, if you have such a problem with the civil service why on earth have you not run for office yet to make the changes you think will benefit this country......
Why were you not looking for a pay decrease prior to 2021 when public sector pay per person was far outstripping inflation? ye know the argument being made in reverse for pay rises in the sector now?
Why don't you apply, so?
cause being a victim works for him/her
definatlely of having to overpay in tax in order to suppor these pay rises . so yeah I am a victim.
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