Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

If they wouldn't even consider putting the 2.5% to ballot I don't think they're going to accept 3%. I think the next offer will be structured so that those on lower pay get a greater increase.

I still think they'll drag it out until the budget as they are talking about adjusting tax brackets which may benefit middle and higher earners.

Ah look, you are moving the goalposts the whole time, the last 2 years were outliers, they skewed the cost of the public service. You were set on 17% wage inflation, then when it suited jumped to 20% pay disparity with little nuance then when that didn't actually seem true. It's like assuming that there was a massive and sustainable change to the amount of mask needed in Ireland, and saying "you see massive inflation of mask numbers between 2014 and 2021" .............do you see the same between 2014 and 2019......…

England is disfuntional. It's education system is eating itself. 1/3 of teachers leave before they hit 5 years teaching because they can't afford to be a teacher. The rates of inequality of education and retention are also appaling, it's not a place I'd be looking at copying. Cool fact, ireland underspend on education (OECD figures) and over performs internationally (Pisa Rankings); if education were a part of a business they would be up for bonuses.

You also get what you pay for. Education and medicine are global markets now, if you want to retain talent in a one of the most expensive countries in the world you will have to pay for it. Even at the rates we are currently paying both sectors are facing acute crisis.

I'm not arguing for any more than the government are offering by the way but there needs to be work done around retention in urban areas. The depth of experience and knowledge is constantly being lost, teachers and nurses do a few years and then go home so they can afford to live. This isn't sustainable long term. I dread to think how bad the next few years will be, the increase in the young population of going to push things to unsustainable levels.

If there are changes to tax I'd much rather see a bigger pay increase at the very bottom than anything significant for middle to high income earners, giving up a luxury us very different from struggling to keep the heating on. I'd hope our unions would back that too

It would be very unreasonable to ask most clerical officers I know to add more work to their load.

It's not about them deserving more pay. It's about them struggling to put food on the table.

Nobody is specifically talking about clerical officers. They're used as an example as they're on the lowest scale.

That shouldn't need to be spelled out to you.

Are you asking me for the exact figures of the governments next pay offer? Leo said they were looking at greater increases for lower paid so that's what we're speculating. What I or anyone else may speculate those figures to be is irrelevant.

If you think it's impossible or unreasonable or you simply can't understand how it could be implemented I'll remind you that the last pay deal offered 1% or €500, whichever was greater. This benefited lower paid. That's not to say that's how they'll do it this time, if they do it at all.

Then you'd just end up with AP/PO on strike and Fórsa not (or potentially both).

Do the COs outnumber the other grades in Fórsa or what are the numbers like?

I'm asking what is the figure where someone is considered lower paid or not. What's the cut off point. The original post made was that the poster would prefer to see a bigger increase at the bottom than for the middle and higher earners.

I don't think it's impossible, I do think it's unreasonable to give the bottom paid a pay increase at the expense of middle and hugger income earners. If the pay rates between the grades are going to narrrow then the workload and responsibilities also have to narrow. That's the only fair outcome.

Higher pay for the lower paid has already been agreed upon for October. It's 1% or €500, whichever is greater. It was the same last in October 21.

Workload and responsibilities didn't change in 2021 and won't be changing this time around.