How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
I cant find the info on it to be honest I have looked if you find them put them up. Also when you do get them what will it prove?
go on elaborate I took the overall numbers, the overall cost its not that hard and using both numbers for the start and end year. I have the math worked out a couple of pages back
yeah the figures I was looking at where Feb in 2021. Our current out of control inflation started toward the end of 2021. So even going by your figure of end of Dec 21 it is 7.3% you still got a 17% increase in pay per person in that time. Also the increase in wages and the cost of annual increments in the year for 2021 for workers in the public sector from last year are not included in my figures either so that is another 1% + another say 1% (to round it up) for increments. So there is still from Jan 14 to Dec 21 a differential of roughly 10 - 12% on pay per person vs inflation (depending on how much it cost for annual increments) that the ps pay per person went up in within that time frame.
how do we know they are being disingenious when you haven't even provided the equivalent comparitory pay rises for the private sector (including ideally perks and bonuses) over the exact same time frame
The article doesn't provide suitable figures for your extrapolation. The only way you can achieve this is by deeply misunderstanding the content.
You seem to have literally no idea how percentages work.
Sorry your argument does not hold water people coming in later from (2010 onward) I believe it was 10% less, this obviously went back up towards parity over the years but in the public sector in a lot of cases new employees were being paid less then the employees who where doing the same job there before them also increments where paid right through the last recession, sure there was a whole hullabaloo about new entrants getting their "pay restoration"
So your analogy doesn't stake up. The figures are there I did actually take the p1ss in a post a couple of pages back and suggested that if the whole woe is me, I dont get any increases hard luck stories coming from the public sector was to be believed that the figure for each new entrant from 2014 onwards was 107k in order to balance out the addtional costs in 2021. (which obviously didnt happen) Sorry about your basic understanding of how things are within the sector and my math is actually correct.
new entrants in from 2010 onward
CPI inflation between Jan 2014 and Dec 2021 was almost 7.5%
I was going to but you've demonstrated a startling lack of basic mathematics that I don't see much point, TBH. A waste of bandwidth, most likely.
I'll try give it in as basic a manner as I can.
Company A has 10 employees, each earning 30k per annum, so their wage bill is 300,000.
They hire three more people, each of whom is earning 120k per annum. Their wage bill jumps to 660,000.
Using your flawed logic from earlier (I. E. Extrapolate pay per person, WTF that means), everyone in that company got a pay increase of about 80%, as the pay per person jumped 25 grand, from 30k to 55k.
Simplistic. Reductionist. And just plain wrong.
Ok well then the argument is that you have already had a 17% rise in pay in the years from 2014 to 2021 with inflation running at 2% in those years meaning you effectively had a 15% pay rise. Also deflation is as uncommon as 9% inflation in 6 months yet it doesnt stop your unions asking for 10% payrises on the back of it
Do you know how uncommon deflation is? The prices are here to stay. And sure the war could be 10 years.
Well if I am wrong show me the error ?
No just data on how public sector unions are being disingenuous when they can conveniently forget the pay rises that have been given in the public sector vs inflation in the years from 2014 to 2021 and then 7 months of high inflation which may be transitory they want 10% as inflation is up at 9%.
Tell me you did ordinary level maths without telling me you did ordinary level maths.
So you make a claim comparing sectors and can then only provide one set of figures. So in effect, you're making it up as you go along and have no figures for thr private sector only anti public service rhetoric.
Don't shoot the messenger
The figures are there you can see a 17% increase in pay per person by extrapolating out the amount of employees and the amount paid out in the year 2014 and 2021. Inflation you can google it was around 2% for the years between 2014 and 2021.
So 17 -2 = 15
I'll tell you one thing for certain, inflation between 2014 and 2021 was definitely not 2%, what a ridiculous claim for them to make.
You claimed
"as the public sector has a 15% plus figure disparity when it comes to the comparison of pay rises per person in the public sector (17%) vs inflation (2%) over the years between 2014 and 2021."
None of these figures are contained in your link.
Do you want to elaborate?
This doesn't substantiate your claim.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/public-service-pay-bill-reached-record-high-of-23-5bn-last-year-1.4776757
Trust me bro
Cant find the details for private sector unfortunately I am sure they are there some where.
Public sector
source for above would be great also private sector pay rise comparison across same period would be fantastic too thanks
Well the public sector has been already pre-insulated, as the public sector has a 15% plus figure disparity when it comes to the comparison of pay rises per person in the public sector (17%) vs inflation (2%) over the years between 2014 and 2021.
Yeah we are all running the same race and jumping the same hurdles with cost of living. yet a pay rise to this sector means it has to paid for by taking more in taxes or cuts to other services or borrowing more and if the latter it will be a hell of a lot more expensive to pay back with interest rate rises.
and how long will that take to determine with workers and young families put to the pin of their collar to keep up with massive cost of living rises .. a litre of milk alone is up 40% and we have to wait till the ukraine war (which has been going on effectively since 2014) to finish to get a measly pay rise to buy our groceries ..
We don't know that (Mad Vlad doesnt even know this), this is why IMO the government have been slow to getting back to the table. They don't know, no one does. But what we do know is that due to the higher costs we are heading to a recession both in this country and the globe and we will feel it as Ireland is such an open economy. A recession always has historically always comes with job losses from the private sector. The fact being ignored is a lot of private sector companies where in life support during covid and yeah the economy was booming for the first 4/5 months of the year but there is now a recession looming large and you can see things like consumer sentiment regressing into negative territory. So under the current conditions I wouldnt be paying any payrises until we know if inflation is here to stay
when is the war going to end.... ? how long is a piece of string ????
russia has just cut the gas supply of europe to 20% .. when exactly are they going to cop on???
looks like high 9+% inflation is here to stay...
They do important work in some sectors and in others they don't. Look the public sector is not the only sector seeing people not joining their numbers its the same from coffee shops to IT companies they cant get the staff either.
I wouldn't be paying any pay rises until we know the true nature of the current inflationary spike if it is here say 6 months after the war has finished then by all means pay some pay rises but if it drops after Russia cop on then it will mean we have inflated public sector pay and the knock on effect to public sector pensions artificially and of course the gobsh1t tax payer will be picking up the tab or it will a visit from the IMF to tell us to cope on with our spending again.
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