How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
Hopefully something will happen soon.
Not really for those on lower pay in public or private sector. An increase in tax credits would be more beneficial, changes to USC etc.
I'm not against changing jobs. I'll be waiting for my redundancy offer first though like a lot of our counterparts in the private sector get.
This is very back of the envelope maths with very little understanding of the actual reasons for the averages changing. One very simple thing to look at (1 factor, certainly not the only factor) is that pay to new entrants was slashed in 2011/12. This lead to a two tier system that has slowly been eroded over the interveening years. In real terms, given I am post 2012, in my first 5 years I earned 30grand less than someone who started 6 months before me. Over the last decade this gap has gotten smaller, so I've probably had an increase of over 20% (from a low starting point) whereas others in the staffroom would be on about 4/5% in the same time period. Some of the senior staff would be on less take home now than they were pre 2008 with the changes to pensions contributions and tax brackets. Were they overpaid then......I don't know.......are we facing an acute hiring crisis now....absolutly
Take-home pay and spending power are alos the only real metrics you can judge and income by. If most of the hospital and schools can't get staff in the city then you have a problem.......and not having an ER doc or nurse is a hell of a lot more problematic than a person working in fintech having to live a bit further out given many will work from home.
In the long term I would prefer to see the bottom 10-20% of the public service taken care of first, if the 30% middle income tax bracket is real it will help the rest anyway. That and childcare will yield the biggest real improvement on the ground.
Not in some people's minds.
Not to mention the temporary levy which changed name and became permanent
Can that be afforded?? Look you can break it down anyway you want in the sector it boils down to over 17% per person increase in wages in the public sector during a period where inflation was only 2% from 2014 to 2021. if the lower paid want more then those on the higher wage in the sector should have their pay cut to pay it. Your unions should not be allowed to get away with an argument for massive pay rises because of about 9% inflation in less than 7 months when it is still unknown if its temporary and the inflation is linked to the war, Covid and still some leftovers after Brexit and looking for 10+% and then ignore the facts of pay per person vs inflation in the previous 8/9 years. Hows about we cut the wage by 15% that's the differential between pay and inflation between 2014 and 2021 then by all means give yourselves a 10% pay rise.
So you had to pay a bit more for your pension, you do know that public sector workers don't cover the whole cost right?
Do you not think the public sector do important work? It is already unattractive to join. What do you think the increase should be? Like we could pay them all 25k and see who stays? You have never had any comment that isnt anti public sector. What do you want to see happen salary wise? The pension is not particularly good anymore but if it was worse theyd attract an even lower calibre of staff. Whats your solution?
They do important work in some sectors and in others they don't. Look the public sector is not the only sector seeing people not joining their numbers its the same from coffee shops to IT companies they cant get the staff either.
I wouldn't be paying any pay rises until we know the true nature of the current inflationary spike if it is here say 6 months after the war has finished then by all means pay some pay rises but if it drops after Russia cop on then it will mean we have inflated public sector pay and the knock on effect to public sector pensions artificially and of course the gobsh1t tax payer will be picking up the tab or it will a visit from the IMF to tell us to cope on with our spending again.
when is the war going to end.... ? how long is a piece of string ????
russia has just cut the gas supply of europe to 20% .. when exactly are they going to cop on???
looks like high 9+% inflation is here to stay...
We don't know that (Mad Vlad doesnt even know this), this is why IMO the government have been slow to getting back to the table. They don't know, no one does. But what we do know is that due to the higher costs we are heading to a recession both in this country and the globe and we will feel it as Ireland is such an open economy. A recession always has historically always comes with job losses from the private sector. The fact being ignored is a lot of private sector companies where in life support during covid and yeah the economy was booming for the first 4/5 months of the year but there is now a recession looming large and you can see things like consumer sentiment regressing into negative territory. So under the current conditions I wouldnt be paying any payrises until we know if inflation is here to stay
and how long will that take to determine with workers and young families put to the pin of their collar to keep up with massive cost of living rises .. a litre of milk alone is up 40% and we have to wait till the ukraine war (which has been going on effectively since 2014) to finish to get a measly pay rise to buy our groceries ..
Well the public sector has been already pre-insulated, as the public sector has a 15% plus figure disparity when it comes to the comparison of pay rises per person in the public sector (17%) vs inflation (2%) over the years between 2014 and 2021.
Yeah we are all running the same race and jumping the same hurdles with cost of living. yet a pay rise to this sector means it has to paid for by taking more in taxes or cuts to other services or borrowing more and if the latter it will be a hell of a lot more expensive to pay back with interest rate rises.
source for above would be great also private sector pay rise comparison across same period would be fantastic too thanks
Cant find the details for private sector unfortunately I am sure they are there some where.
Public sector
Trust me bro
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/public-service-pay-bill-reached-record-high-of-23-5bn-last-year-1.4776757
This doesn't substantiate your claim.
Do you want to elaborate?
You claimed
"as the public sector has a 15% plus figure disparity when it comes to the comparison of pay rises per person in the public sector (17%) vs inflation (2%) over the years between 2014 and 2021."
None of these figures are contained in your link.
I'll tell you one thing for certain, inflation between 2014 and 2021 was definitely not 2%, what a ridiculous claim for them to make.
The figures are there you can see a 17% increase in pay per person by extrapolating out the amount of employees and the amount paid out in the year 2014 and 2021. Inflation you can google it was around 2% for the years between 2014 and 2021.
So 17 -2 = 15
Don't shoot the messenger
So you make a claim comparing sectors and can then only provide one set of figures. So in effect, you're making it up as you go along and have no figures for thr private sector only anti public service rhetoric.
Tell me you did ordinary level maths without telling me you did ordinary level maths.
No just data on how public sector unions are being disingenuous when they can conveniently forget the pay rises that have been given in the public sector vs inflation in the years from 2014 to 2021 and then 7 months of high inflation which may be transitory they want 10% as inflation is up at 9%.
Well if I am wrong show me the error ?
Do you know how uncommon deflation is? The prices are here to stay. And sure the war could be 10 years.
Ok well then the argument is that you have already had a 17% rise in pay in the years from 2014 to 2021 with inflation running at 2% in those years meaning you effectively had a 15% pay rise. Also deflation is as uncommon as 9% inflation in 6 months yet it doesnt stop your unions asking for 10% payrises on the back of it
I was going to but you've demonstrated a startling lack of basic mathematics that I don't see much point, TBH. A waste of bandwidth, most likely.
I'll try give it in as basic a manner as I can.
Company A has 10 employees, each earning 30k per annum, so their wage bill is 300,000.
They hire three more people, each of whom is earning 120k per annum. Their wage bill jumps to 660,000.
Using your flawed logic from earlier (I. E. Extrapolate pay per person, WTF that means), everyone in that company got a pay increase of about 80%, as the pay per person jumped 25 grand, from 30k to 55k.
Simplistic. Reductionist. And just plain wrong.
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