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Why is our connection with Wales so weak?

snowstorm445

This always seems very strange to me in terms of our cultural geography. It's fairly popular to class Ireland together with Wales, Scotland, Brittany, Cornwall and the Isle of Man under the Celtic heading. But I would say out of all these we only really feel a strong affinity to the Scots. We share similar historic languages, we have similar cultural traits, there's been lots of movement back and forth over the centuries between us. It's still not particularly close (in the way that, say, the Scandinavian countries all feel bound together), but we recognise ourselves in each other to some degree.

For the rest, the connections seem to be more academic (languages, legends and mythology) than anything really tangible in the modern day. I think it's particularly surprising with Wales - they're right across the sea from us, stuck in between ourselves and our historical overlords (who definitely loom large in our minds). Historically speaking any route from our east coast which didn't travel directly north had to skirt past Wales at some stage. It's still a big part of the modern overland route to England, whether through Holyhead or Fishguard or anywhere else.

But Wales really doesn't feature in our cultural worldview. Our languages diverged thousands of years ago and they are very different nowadays, on the surface it's quite hard to see any connections between them. There wasn't a movement of people between us in the same way that there was across the Straits of Moyle to Scotland, even in modern times very few Irish people seemed to have settled in Wales specifically. Politically we've never been close either, as far as I can tell. And even to the average Irish person, we would tend to know very little about Wales other than experiences from taking the ferry or the annual Six Nations clash. How many Irish people would know about the Eisteddfod? Or who Plaid Cymru are?

Geographically speaking, they are the nearest neighbour for most of us. So why aren't there deeper ties between us? Did British rule stifle the connection maybe? Are they too small to exert much influence on us? Or is there actually a real connection that's just a bit less obvious.

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Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325696#Comment_119325696

Well while I noticed that in Anglesey, further east towards Bangor and the towns towards Chester seemed fine to me, I have not been in South Wales ,North Wales didn't have a big mining industry relative to the South , tourism, farming and Slate ,you can only see so much in a week but I wouldn't call much of what I saw deprived outside Anglesey

Villages were on average much prettier than in Ireland irrespective of GNP per capita

No one of housing ribbon development like here ruining the countryside

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325662#Comment_119325662

The individual most responsible for partition was Canadian born ulsterman Bonar Law , he blocked the home rule Bill prior to WW1 and rowed in with ulster unionists and went against his own government, Lloyd George was the man in the top job when partition eventually happened, he was born in England but represented Gynyedd and there is a statue to him in Caernafon

Mad_maxx

Growleaves, can't quote you're post for some reason but every single Protestant country had and has some level of anti Catholic attitudes, Canada has it ,New Zealand has it as it's so full of people of Scottish ancestry, Australia doesn't but it has a remarkably indifferent attitude to religion throughout its history

Wales however is and was in the happeny place compared to Scotland in this regard, they might have been hostile to the idea of a foreign church having influence but there was no deep rooted theological opposition which is so Intrinsic to Presbyterianism which is the Scottish Protestant denomination which dominates

Mad_maxx

Treaddur Bay I visited on the way back to ferry, beautiful coastline but town pretty forgettable

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306459#Comment_119306459

Scotch 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

youre either a Stuart Lee fan on the wind up or something else 😂😂

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325913#Comment_119325913

There's no town in T'Bay, it's a beach with a couple of bars, restaurants and hotels. Probably why it was forgettable

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325934#Comment_119325934

It may be American influence on that poster.

In the US "Scotch-Irish" was the usual term for Ulster-Scots immigrants in recent centuries.

Though it's more recently been overtaken by the term "Scots-Irish".

You don't really hear these names used here much though its true.

WJL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058253548/why-is-our-connection-with-wales-so-weak

At first I thought it was broadband!

Interesting post. Their rugby supporters are up themselves. Even when they were poor.

I find them more anglicised than the Scots in outlook. The language being an anomaly.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325815#Comment_119325815

I'm talking about the slate villages south of the A5 through Snowdonia, just 2/3 miles from tourism hot spots. The villages were derelect. Nothing like Betws-y-coed. Even Llanberis was a bit miserable for such a touristy spot. The bits you probably saw have all been colonised by the English, who by the way are hated there.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326138#Comment_119326138

Quite wrong, the most fiercely pro union people in Scotland are far more into union jack waving than anyone in Wales, Irish people often make the mistake of thinking of the Scottish as happy go lucky Billy Connolly types ,where as a far more typical Scot is someone like Gordon Brown with that inherent dourness

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326321#Comment_119326321

I didn't seek out deprived areas but didn't avoid them ,I certainly came across dieing villages in Angelsey

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326321#Comment_119326321

I've seen a lot of that too. For every cutesy retiree village there's several decaying towns. A lot of the pretty stuff in North Wales was developed in the Victorian age for the wealth made in the industrial cities. Coal and slate to England, English factory workers on their wake weeks in return.

In England for every Cheshire there's several post industrial wasteland cities like Bolton, Burnley, Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Huddersfield etc... places you never hear tourists talk about.

Actually KLF in one of their many guises had a song with a most comprehensive list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20XLWEjN9eI&ab_channel=KLF

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326459#Comment_119326459

I wasn't seeking these villages out, just exploring the hills on that side of the road to get away from the congestion around Snowdon at the weekends (from mainly English walkers).

WJL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326450#Comment_119326450

Scotland has a very West/East divide in terms of gaelic regions, the West, and more Protestant, Puritan, pro Union.

The gaelic side are much more pro Irish than the Welsh.

I don't think of happy clappy Scots where John Knox was active!

[Deleted User]

Wales = England Lite, its that simple.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325625#Comment_119325625

Eh what comment on the Welsh? I never said anything?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326524#Comment_119326524

But the vast majority of Catholics in Scotland live in the Glasgow area which is West Scotland?

Every other region is overwhelmingly Protestant bar the Highlands where population is miniscule

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325633#Comment_119325633

Holyhead gives a very poor first impression. Dere's more to Anglesey dan dis! (to quote Partridge)

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325791#Comment_119325791

One nice little memory I have of Holyhead. I bought some fish and chips and drove up to the lighthouse to eat them in peace and quiet and watch the waves rolling in across the Irish Sea. My idea of heaven.

WJL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326874#Comment_119326874

Sorry didn't phrase that well. West Scotland, the Isles etc is more Gaelic.

pauliebdub

Possibly it's historical adherence to fundamentalist Calvinist protestantism (along with Scotland) has shaped its attitudes towards us with were rooted in anti Catholicism. I wouldn't feel a strong connection or affinity to either country as I would towards parts of France or Spain.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327176#Comment_119327176

Wales isn't fundamentalist Calvinist, never Has been, nor has England

growleaves

Comment copied from a different discussion board:

"Historically most of the Welsh Methodists were Calvinist, That is from the tradition [Lloyd] Jones came out of. Originally there were two strains of Methodists, the Calvinists (Whitefield) and the Arminians (Wesley). As time went on the Arminians kind of swallowed up the Calvinists until you have in modern times Methodism being synonymous with Arminian, but it was not always the case."

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325815#Comment_119325815

I agree with you. Villages and women - both prettier in Wales than in Ireland. Anyone who disagrees with my opinion on this is just wrong/deluded. :)

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327558#Comment_119327558

Half right, the Welsh women were no oil paintings,saw no Catherine Zeta Jones lookalikes I'm afraid

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327646#Comment_119327646

Yeah but we don't have a Catherine Zeta Jones lookalikes. Glenda Gilson was a 'supermodel' in Ireland FFS.

cuttingtimber22

Always found people welcoming and friendly in Wales. Great to go to for the rugby. They were a bit thick when it came to Brexit given the money they got from the EU but all in I would definitely go back.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325633#Comment_119325633

that's cause the british cut down most of our forests back in the day

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119327856#Comment_119327856

Fadó, fadó, a squirrel could get from one side of the country to t’other without setting foot on the ground.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119326540#Comment_119326540

That's kinda of the conclusion I came to. They were always a royal realm, a Tudor line from Wales went on to the English throne, the Henrician church reforms actually increased literacy in their language when English invasions decreased native languages elsewhere. The topography made it something of a natural fortress so it was never considered a backdoor for invading Britain like Ireland was.