How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
govt surplus projected to be 1.6 billion euros this year so yes workers should of course be properly paid to allow for rampant inflation
Nobody is mentioning that inflation causes tax take to go up.
Or that most of any public pay increase will come straight back to the exchequer in tax.
But anyway. This isn't the "why public servants should work for free" thread it's supposed to be about the pay talks.
No doubt there will be a better offer but not much better, unions will urge members to accept and it'll be narrowly voted through with a couple of unions like ASTI or maybe those med lab staff who were on strike recently holding out, at least for a while.
Net result, I get poorer
It has all been mentioned but I wouldn't blame you for not going back through it all. I think it's time to get the thread back on track.
There you go 2019 report and 2016 over 99.7% satisfactory definitely goes to show its hard to not get your increment. I have no figures after 2019
Civil Service Management Board Annual Report 2019
2016
Did it occur to you that thousands of families in this country who work in the public sector are IN THE EXACT SAME BOAT?
Or do you think they are coasting along comfortably, not impacted by the current rate of inflation, increased fuel costs, increased energy bills, spiralling food costs, trying to pay childcare, rent etc?
Are you also aware, that public sector workers also pay tax and PRSI at the same rates as anyone else? and that their children will be "taxpayers of the future" too?
As someone else said, if your gripe is really about YOUR OWN pay and conditions, it would suit you better to start fighting your own corner with your employer for better pay and conditions, rather than taking your frustration out on public sector families who are doing the same with their employer, so they can support their families.
Its not resentment its a waking up to the fact that when the public sector get a pay rise it has to be paid for by increasing borrowing or/and taxes and we have been borrowing as a nation for the last 14/15 years to the tune now of 250 billion. Its also to make people aware that the piper for all this borrowing will have to be paid and when interest rates go up (and they will be going up) we will be paying out a lot more just to service our debts.
eh well they will get their pensions I wont so we are not in the same boat. The fact is there is a huge shortfall in the funding the public sector pension that has to be covered. Its not frustration its a fact that these payrises have to be paid for and I can see 3 ways of paying and all 3 incur costs for everyone else.
Ah go away. Troll.
Troll? what am I making too much sense or you ? where is the flaw in my logic?
How you get your pension is your own choice. If you want a full 35~40 year pension from the public sector go work in it for 35~40yrs.
Yet I get a choice to pay for my own pensions but I cant afford to put anything away currently but I am forced to pay via taxation for shortfall in expenses for the 400k other peoples pensions in the public sector thats not exactly fair now is it. Hows about they cover the full cost themselves.
you know nothing about the public sector pension
What I know is that the pension levy goes no where near covering the full costs of their pensions and the shortfall is made up from tax payers.
I'm convinced that the people on here bemoaning a public sector pay rise don't have a good understanding of how the public workforce actually looks.
No one supports pay cuts for nurses, teachers or firefighters. It's all focused on the CS and the PS. If you look at the Public Appointments Service's latest annual report (2020), the recruitment breakdown should give you a sense of how the CS workforce looks. In 2020, 3446 people were hired at the grades of EO and CO collectively, while less than 400 were hired at grades above that. For clarity, COs start on 25K and EOs start at 31K. Do you really not think those people deserve a pay rise to help out right now? Fair enough, that is just the 2020 figures, but in any department I have been in it is at least 60% COs/EOs.
Now if you argue that people on 70K should not receive the same pay rise, I could follow your logic. I am all for a tailored approach in that regard. The EO on 31K needs that pay rise more than the AP on 70K.
I decided to leave the public sector and I must say (apart from pension), there are far more benefits of working in the private sector than public sector.
Well a lot are bemoaning the indiscriminate nature of awarding a set of employees that get it no matter how good bad or ugly they are at the job. If someone regardless of if they are one 300k or 30k in the ps are doing a good job give them the pay rise but as long as the strong arm tactics of collective bargaining and threats of strikes from unions hang over negotiations and the fact that any pay rise will cost the tax payer more in either more taxes, borrowing or cuts and at a time where we are facing into a recession, I think people have the right to question what the hell is going on. But no doubt I will be labeled a troll for asking the hard questions.
Getting away from the drivel about increments and S***e like that I think the 5% starting point was good. I'd be happy with 1% already agreed for October along with an extra 3%. 3% next year in March.
You're not interested in logic. You're a troll. Here for **** & giggles.
For all your blustering, its boils down to you think it's not fair which most likely resonates with some similar past experience of unfairness. You're free to join the public/civil service if you think it's that much a gravy train, you're not a tree stuck in the ground
Yeah an increment increases you pay and you get paid more and it costs more to the person paying it so its a pay rise as I say in no other country or walk of life would it be deemed anything else.
As pointed out its connecting the dots and an understanding that it has to be paid for meaning an increase in wage for the ps means a cut to the rest of us mere mortals and unfortunately for yourself and the rest of the PS I can see there being cuts coming in about 5/8 years when our debt and current expenditure is no longer affordable.
we pay prsi income taxes pension contributions and public sector levy
i pay a higher proportion of my pension than you do yours, id bet
Insurance levy.
levy to bail out developers.
levy to bail out banks.
And yet with those payments they still do not cover the full costs of the pension that is received this is a fact. I dont have a pension cant afford one
You - Completely unsubstantiated claim from a proven idiot on the internet claiming - it's a well known fact that if increments are refused then somebody goes to their union rep and it gets sorted.
Also you - Dismisses claim countering your statement from actual public sector worker and demands sources and figures relating to amount of refusals from somebody who has outlined they happen.
I know you've proven to be really, really slow on the uptake in this thread, but have a read back over that and see if the word 'delusional' comes to mind.
So you've now tried to claim that we owe €170 billion as a result of prior overpayment in the public sector - even though you have provided no evidence whatsoever as to why these jobs were overpaid.
And look who else is back after not bothering to respond to anything asked of you before.
You aren't Gordon Gecko for outlining how inflation works.
Rages not rising in line with inflation is an effective pay cut, as recognised by just about every economist and financial institution in the world. Pity aul clever clogs himself Dav010 didn't get the memo.
"“If prices are growing faster than wages, then people are getting inflation-adjusted pay cuts,” according to Michael Strain, director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute"
or the below article from Fortune - you might know them from the Fortune 500 as you are such a financial whizz.
"Inflation gave workers a pay cut last year" https://fortune.com/2022/01/28/inflation-us-workers-pay-cut-could-get-worse/
Did you miss the part where I said that PMDS was not the only possible reason for a delay, deferral or removal of an increment?
Do you also know, that PMDS can be delayed and not signed off on (with concurrent delay of increment) until performance improves to a satisfatory level?
Or do you just pick and choose what bits of posts that suit your narrative.
Again, you show your ignorance of the inner workings of a sector you are not employed in.
Fred, I didn’t reply to your earlier post because 6.5 is not, nor will it ever be 10. You don’t need to be a mathematical genius to work that out, responding to your prompts at the time would have been pointless.
An “effective” pay cut Is not a pay cut, your employer is not reducing the amount you receive, your money just isn’t worth as much as it used to. It may feel to you like you are earning less, but you aren’t. By increasing your wage by 9% you are getting an actual pay rise, if/when inflation falls you have by your reckoning got a second “effective” pay rise.
So you're saying that after 30 years working in the private sector, you won't qualify for a Contributory State Pension?
I think you need to look it up. gov.ie - State Pension (Contributory) (www.gov.ie)
I put up the documentation that over 99.7% got a rating that meant they got their increment in the years 2016 and 2019 I dont know what more proof you need that shows its hard not to get it. The docs are there to look at.
Ah yeah I will get the state pensions alright but what I am paying in PRSI will more than cover my state pension.
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