How do people feel about this one? Will it be short and sweet?
Mod warning:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425200/#Comment_121425200
I never read or heard of a single piece of ESRI "research" that goes against what the government want to hear. They're funded from government, they are extremely well paid and the quid pro quo of that is to deliver what the politicians want to hear. Listen on all the news and tv channels today and note they'll be quoted as gospel on all of them.
Ah yes, all the usual anti public sector pay deal propoganda summed up in one article.
Not a word said about anyone earning under €150k.
Public Servants between increments and this other Inflation rise will be getting a far bigger pay rise in 2022 than the vast vast majority of private workers .
Unless your going to be a company CEO young people should be looking to a job in the public sector especially if you like working at a slow pace .
Ive gone from working in a big 4 firm to the civil service. The pace is a lot faster in my new role. Broad , generalising statements while fun to say on the internet sometimes to irk others are utterly utterly useless in proper discourse.
Ah the ESRI. Because they're never wrong.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/house-prices-to-fall-by-12-over-next-18-months-esri-says-1.4258075
You have developed a persecution complex, the article is about economic growth and inflation, large PS pay increases will feed inflation further based on their research. You guys turned your nose up at a good offer.
I don't think you seem to understand the purpose of increments. The purpose is to save the state money. They get Labour at cheaper rates based on the length of experience a person has given. This is, of course, also true in the private sector but there is no incremental progress and even if there was that would probably be a confidential matter between private employer and employee. In the interests of accountability this is published as an incremental scale on public sector jobs websites.
The incremental changes are also unchanging for many years in certain public sector roles - for example the employee rises in the scale but the salary remains the same. Public sector also have no Christmas bonuses, very limited opportunities for promotion and pay the public sector pension levy (basically a tax for being a public sector worker).
If the state wishes to get rid of the incremental scale then it should feel free to do so. I'm not sure how this would maintain staff or prevent them leaving their roles as public sector employee has no scope from which to ask their manager for a pay rise.
30 years ago a clerical officer started off at the equivalent of about €200 a week.
If they were refused pay 'rises' in line with inflation and were still on €200 today you could argue that they never had a pay cut. I mean you'd sound stupid, but you could.
See the thing is , we will 100% be given a better offer. So good luck , keep crying into your millions.
I completely agree. What is crazy about increments is that no mater how good, bad or ugly you are at your job you get them. No doubt there are people in the PS who deserve them but you can be sure there are those who don't, yet its almost like finding a unicorn to find a PS employee who does not get their increment. So if an employee is inefficient or on the doss we pay more and the same blunt force instrument of collective bargaining and union strike threats when negotiating pay rises (on top of increments by the way) does the same. The dossers are being rewarded for the hard work of other PS employees. A proper pay scheme should be found where those deserving get a pay rise (even more than inflation if deserving) and those who are on the doss don't. Before I get the "but there are dossers in the private sector" argument, I know this but if you don't pull your weight your found out fairly quickly and you sure as hell will not be getting a pay rise in fact your p45 will more likely given to you as the private company suffers as a consequence.
I would add on to this that all pension entitlements should be defined contributions to bring parity to those of us in the private sector I find it galling being asked to pay for other peoples pensions via higher taxation when I cant afford to pay anything into my own pension.
Can you confirm that you are deliberately ignoring all the previous posts that increments are NOT pay rises, do NOT form part of these talks, and do NOT apply to every civil and public servant?
Just for the sake of the thread, so no one else wastes their time repeating the same information back to you for the umpteenth time.
the basic point you are making is that wages should not rise over time with inflation.
is this something you genuinely believe?
Hahahahah you think dossers in the Private sector are out fairly quickly??? Ive worked in a big 4 company , a pillar bank and a massive insurance company. That is an absolute ludicrous statement.
How the hell are increments not pay rises. you get more money in your back pocket for the same job so it is a pay rise.
OK well let me make this point how much as a tax payer does it cost me if there is a dosser in the private sector?
Can you not understand the concept of increments? They are used to get people to join. If they werent there then any talent wouldnt join. I just dont get your stupid thinking. Who is going to become a teacher where they max at 35k? Do you want your kids education to be shite. Or do you want to pay teachers 75k after graduating?
So you admit you were wrong about your ludicrous statement?
do you really want to start a "the private sector has never cost a taxpayer money" debate?
also to reiterate your one paragraph rants about the public service are worthless dross- you are about as informed as a dog listening to newstalk
No not for employees who are simply watching the clock till they get their pensions I think its crazy.Using your analogy of a teacher, if a teacher is good at their job and have proven themselves year in year out I would have no bother paying them 75k what I don't agree with is that this good teacher gets rewarded the in the exact same way as the teachers who refuse to move with the times or just doesn't bother engaging or pushing their students and we all know their are both sets of teachers out there. How do you not get how stupid a practice that is?
🙄 Whoosh.
So you'd be happy to keep getting the same amount into your bank account as the cost of living races ahead, then?
Read the thread. It's been explained multiple times. I'm not wasting my time explaining it again.
Also this?
yet its almost like finding a unicorn to find a PS employee who does not get their increment.
Who told you that? Someone down the pub? Increments get denied, or deferred, or even withdrawn (for disciplinary procedures) regularly. People don't like to make it widely known if their increment has been denied or delayed for some reason - but it happens a lot more frequently than you think, but I guess you won't accept my word for it.
Yeah if you want as you will see behind things like the banks it was the public sector financial watch dogs who phucked up and the public sector government ministers who actually decided to write the cheques and make the decisions not the banks :) so go ahead and we can have that discussion if you want
Who watchs the clock till they get their pension? I know of zero, do you know any yourself? Were you not able to get a job in the civil/public service is this the real issue? You have explained how amazingly easy we have it so i can only assume that this is jealousy and you failed at interview stage? Maybe failed some of the exams at start? Theres always next year. Chin up
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah are you blaming the public sector for the last recession and not the banks? Hahahahahah
No its a well known fact that if someone gets refused the first thing they do is go to their union rep and its sorted quick smart and have you any figures on how many refusals there was over the last decade? How you can say an increment is not a pay rise when it costs your employer more and you get more money in your bank account is just complete horsesh1t
the problem with knowing what the dog on the street knows is that you only as informed as an itinerant canine
I'm in the CS myself and I know of plenty of people who with about ten years left start to wind down. It does happen.
Not as stupid as this post though.
Not getting a pay rise is not the same as having your pay cut, it means your €200 is not worth as much today as in was in 1992, but that still does not mean your employer has reduced the amount paid into your account.
They played their part in it . The pay rates in the public sector more than doubled in the 7/8 years lead up to the 08 crash ye know benchmarking twice = bertie buying the PS vote then all criteria that benchmarking was based on was destroyed, it wasn't all their fault but to put it in context the finances paid out up to that period of the crash (99 - 08) and during that period of the crash has cost us more than all the banks put together. Do the math we owe 250 billion. 30billion was for covid. 40billion (minus what we would get for our shares in boi and aib) is currently what we owe for the banking clusterphuck so what about the other 170Billion why was that borrowed over the last decade and a half??
No its a well known fact that if someone gets refused the first thing they do is go to their union rep and its sorted quick smart
Horseshít
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