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Minimum Wage - How can you survive ?

Quitelife

Met two people this week working minimum wage both going packing in their jobs because they cant survive on the minimum wage plus their treated very poorly at best.

One works in a manufacturing factory where there was some issue with a machine which stalled production which meant they had to ring the boss in some corporate tent at Punchestown racecourse which resulted in them been fcuked out of it and threatened with their pay been docked this week over machine going down and wait till i get back to the office threats etc etc.

The other works in a well known fast food chain and burned her hand with cooking oil and was given a bit of spray to keep going or you'll be sacked plus you still owe us X Euro for your uniform.She sleeps on a couch in a friends house as she cant afford to rent anywhere presently.

How are people supposed to live renting on minimum wage? Is it any wonder some employers cant get staff. They could do what Keelings or meat factories do - go to the poorest most desperate part of Bulgaria or Latvia and put them in caravans or 6 to a bedroom . 10.50 minimum wage needs to increase significantly is the bottom line .

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JayPS 2288

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992040#Comment_118992040

Absolute rubbish.

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992650#Comment_118992650

Think the chip on your shoulder is serious, i have voted all parties from Fine Gael to Sinn Fein over the years mostly depending on the individual.

All id like to see is those at the bottom getting a fairer slice of the pie rather than been treated like slaves on crapp money. All employers shouldnt be like Larry Goodman,Pat McDonagh, Keelings etc...they could pay their staff a lot better than the bare minimum legal requirement . I myself am doing ok but i feel sad looking at how others are been treated and its becoming more common in our greedy sociaty.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992542#Comment_118992542

P.S. The last 3 decades have been phenomenal for Ireland from an Economic term and have been the only 3 decades where, not only have we had a great quality-of-life/standard-of-living, but we have been amongst the top countries on planet for having so.

Smoke and mirrors. Certain aspects of the Irish economy, and standards of living in some areas have improved, but others have fallen significantly, or remained stagnant. You should take a look at some of the less developed regions of Ireland, and the general standards of living such as west Galway, or Kerry to see that little has changed in a positive way, and in other ways, things have declined. Then take a look at previously relatively prosperous towns in the midlands such as Longford or Mullingar, and once you move away from the busy town centre, you see problems all over. Population migration has remained a serious issue for these regions, but as long as Dublin is seen to be growing, then all is dandy.

There are similar problems with the Irish economy. You've pointed to three decades, which have included a banking crash, and two lesser recessions, in addition to increases in taxation for the government to "help" recovery. Throughout that period, we've seen a wide variety of small-medium sized businesses close both due to market forces, but also the costs of doing business in Ireland. Some of that has been offset by the creation of more jobs by multinationals, but go through most midland towns and it's easy to see a wide range of closed up shops, pubs, etc. The focus, as with many western nations, has shifted towards large corporations or businesses, with the smaller companies being squeezed out. Which is a problem, because outside of the cities, these smaller businesses tend to provide the most amount of jobs, both in themselves, but also in the networks they create to support themselves.

The simple truth is that the Irish economy is on shaky ground. Debt financing of business operations, and institutions using that debt to expand, has weakened their ability to resist big changes in the international scene. The reliance on foreign investment makes us particularly weak to movements by corps chasing after the lowest costs, and as Ireland becomes more expensive, that increases the risks of them leaving for cheaper pastures. Tax increases along with the introduction of rates, or the need to have regulated support services (solicitors, accountants etc) to interpret the maze of State rules, makes it more difficult for smaller businesses to operate.

This is not an attempt to paint Ireland as being in a hole, but there's been a lot of PR programming by the government to present Ireland as being so wealthy, when most of it is rather superficial. State infrastructure is woeful, and getting worse. Transportation costs are increasing each year, and quality of service or provision is dropping. The HSE is a mess, and is clearly underfunded especially when you look outside of the main population centres. Many schools are overcrowded, and underfunded... or relatively empty because the population has shifted so much.

Irish people need to take a long hard look at the economy, and the state of the nation, because it's not near as rosy as you want to make out. It's better in some ways, but we're seeing a decline in other areas. Doesn't help that RTE are hand in glove with the government and unlikely to invest any time showing the vulnerabilities of the economy.

Lastly, look at the other "top" countries. Most of them are struggling. The problem with being at the top, is the desire to increase your spending to show everyone how wonderful you are.. but in many cases, revenue has not increased to compensate for that increased spending...

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992694#Comment_118992694

"Some bosses enjoy looking at their staff knowing they've nothing and a weeks pay away from homelessness."

This is what you wrote above, pretty despicable comment about people who run businesses that keep society running by generating jobs and taxes.

I have no chip on my shoulder mate, but if you're serious about further improving wages and all related matters, be prepared for two things - to pay more for your purchases and pay more tax. Are you on for it?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992069#Comment_118992069

And they get the social housing, medical card etc - no matter whether the reason is an impairment, or that they just couldn't be arsed bettering themselves. Some I know deliberately never earn over 18k so they can avoid paying tax.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992735#Comment_118992735

maintaining 'worker insecurities' is actually policy driven, and has been for a very long time globally, i.e. greenspan era

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992093#Comment_118992093

It will have a lot more people on minimum wage ,increased equality and poverty but we'll all be happy

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992764#Comment_118992764

we ve actually no clue what the sf lead government will achieve, as it hasnt happened yet!

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992735#Comment_118992735

Would you not agree there are employers out there making huge profits and I know some of them but still pay their staff minimum wage when they themselves are extremely rich and their companies are hugely profitable. They brag about getting people from Latvia etc that have poor English and don’t understand what their entitled to etc . It’s sad how greedy some companies are .

Quitelife

I couldn’t give a toss who’s in government but could we not give those prepared to get up and work better than 10.50 an hour .

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992917#Comment_118992917

globally, corporate profits are now at an all time high for most, and most share prices are equally experiencing all time highs

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058243721/minimum-wage-how-can-you-survive

I think the reality is people are going to have to change their expectation and approach to work/life to have a viable work/life balance. That might be have a more spartan minimalist in the cheapest part of this or another country. Its why people emigrated for generations. Its like areas of London that people grew up in they have to move out as it gentrifies and it no longer affordable.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992926#Comment_118992926

....its clearly obvious that our governments, present and past, have played a vital role is this outcome, so.......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992978#Comment_118992978

....the general population doesnt need to do such, we clearly need radical and rapid change in how we redistribute wealth, or we re probably fcuked as a species......

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992057#Comment_118992057

Ireland has a huge system available to up-skill people. If you are in college why would you need to move away?

In regards to SF comment, tell them to stop blocking houses and student houses etc and then the rents might lower.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993793#Comment_118993793

our educational and training systems are actually very limited in scope, and limited in access, i.e. not everyone actually has access to them, and/or the means

yes sf and other parties do need to stop blocking building, but increasing supply does not guarantee lower rents, as supply, or lack of, is only one entity that alters pricing.....

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992749#Comment_118992749

or that they just couldn't be arsed bettering themselves.

Classic Tory-ology.

Try sign on telling them you don't want to work and let us know when you get your house.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993830#Comment_118993830

....and i have a funny feeling, those medical cards are just that, lovely plastic cards, that give you access to virtually nothing.....

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992777#Comment_118992777

FF and FG have passed the government between then for 100 years. Their monopoly and the preferential treatment of friends and political backers is a constant scandal.

Time for someone else to get into power. I'm well aware SF won't improve things much, or at all, but it's time for a change.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993881#Comment_118993881

...oh i completely agree, and sf are next up!

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993812#Comment_118993812

https://springboardcourses.ie/

Seems extensive to me

Jequ0n

So what’s the solution? Pay people more even though they are only able to do menial jobs?

If they are unhappy they need to make changes themselves or just accept their state.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118992729#Comment_118992729

I'm sorry, but standards have risen drastically across the board since the 80's. Some more than others, but all segments of the population have a vastly improved standard of living compared to the 80's.

With regards towns, that is down to the modernisation of Ireland and, indeed, the topic of this post - minimum wage. Ultimately, the layout of Ireland is based on the industrial era and we have been slow to modernise, hence the property crisis of the last 3 decades. The simple fact is that we have a huge amount of towns that were built up to suit industrial era needs, but no longer have a purpose in the modern era. The function of many industrial era towns were to provide local markets, low-skilled production, act as stops for travellers between cities and act as centres of policing and administration. However, with the invention of the train, and later the automobile, plane and modern shipping, a lot of these needs disappeared. But our towns continued to hobble along throughout the 20th century when Ireland was a very poor place with typically some low paying factory offering employment. However, and this is close to the topic at hand, in the 90's, as minimum wage was introduced and subsequently increased, these factories were forced to close/relocate. The problems were masked at the time due to a boom in jobs in construction and services, but the '08 crash exposed all that.

So the question to be asked of any given town in Ireland today is "what is the purpose of this town in the 21st century". Some are doing well as tourist towns - located in areas of tourism and with good roads, hotels, pubs, restaurants, activities etc, they can continue to thrive. Others serve as commuter towns due to their proximity to cities, or have grown to be self-sufficient in their own right with good business development. But the reality is that there are too many towns and, thus some towns just no longer have a purpose. That is not a specific Irish problem, that is the same the world over with modern jobs and better-paid jobs etc more likely to exist in large companies (or small companies that support them) that are based in large population areas such as cities.

With regards the Irish economy - yes - the fact that we have allowed the property crisis to grow for 30 years and still have no intention of resolving it is causing massive problems for the economy and quality of life both today and into the future. Our rising national debt, combined with a growing diversion of tax receipts to "social transfers" is also another huge cause for concern. But we are really going off topic discussing them!

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993897#Comment_118993897

Springboard is fantastic, I have used it in the past, but it's not a panacea to unskilled work. Distance learning can be tough, the range of courses is limited and very STEM centered and there is no financial support for equipment.

I'm less familiar with SOLAS, more familiar with FAS, until it was shut down after that expenses scandal, the same scandal that our taoiseach at the time, Brian Cowen, tried to play down and defend.

costacorta

You better learn another language so!!

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118993988#Comment_118993988

I have contacted SOLAS recently, more or less if you have a person willing to take you on as an apprentice they will help you, if not they cannot find anyone

I have also found lots of course dotted around Ireland, welding etc if that is what you require, some of them paid(no idea how much) etc

So it depends on what you want to do and then see what is available

Mrs OBumble

The ETB network is large and provides extensive training in diverse locations.

eCollege provides online options.

There is no reason for an adult who is not cognitive impaired not to upskill.

[Deleted User]

Interest rate increases. greater housing shortage and inflation - just 3 more things to look forward to- if you think life is tough now, give it a year or two

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994052#Comment_118994052

I tend to agree. There are plenty of edge cases where people cannot upskill, but in general, the vast majority should be able to make the time.

I will say that most of this is a result of the "work your way up from the bottom" career ladder disappearing. I struggle to think of many careers where you can make decent money and learn the entirety of your skills on the job. Mostly thinking of sales, or transportation.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994024#Comment_118994024

Oh! and we're going back to the 80s then? So, not 30 years like you suggested earlier? Of course standards of living have improved since the 80s.. I didn't suggest otherwise. Although, you might want to consider the drop in the quality of food in Ireland, especially with regards to meat, and what is bought in stores with the introduction of "cheap" alternatives..

The simple fact is that we have a huge amount of towns that were built up to suit industrial era needs, but no longer have a purpose in the modern era.

Rubbish. Ireland has never explored the area of industrialisation, and while the UK embraced the "industrial era", Ireland remained as an agrarian society, which the towns reflect. Which is why most towns have large central areas for markets, and while housing has expanded to cover areas, which were given over to the storage of product, the remnants can be seen in most towns due to their layout. Our towns reflect the medieval aspect of urban planning, because we largely avoided the changes that industrialisation brought about.

Although, I'm still trying to figure out why you're bothering to introduce any of that to this discussion.

But the reality is that there are too many towns and, thus some towns just no longer have a purpose.

Ahh I understand now. You're one of those who see no value in countryside populations, and that cities are more efficient in the modern sense. Um.. you do realise that most European countries have decided that logic to be a failure and are now seeking to revitalise the countryside because it's necessary in providing the backbone for social stability and the economy in general? (especially now that people are leaving the cities in droves because they're too expensive, too polluted and often too dangerous?) In any case, we're going far from the OP, and my response to that OP.

But we are really going off topic discussing them!

Except you didn't discuss my post. You vaguely referred to it, and you went off on a tangent concerning other factors.

But grand... it is off-topic.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994009#Comment_118994009

Why?

I lived in China for 13 years, and only learned Mandarin in the last fives years there. I also lived/worked in Japan and S.Korea without learning the languages involved. (although I would recommend improving German to relative fluency if you want to work there)

You can get to live and work in many countries just with English. It certainly helps to learn another language, but it's not a definite requirement. We already know one of the most sought-after languages in the world, and Irish people are listed as being native English speakers, which has value abroad.