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Census 2022 question on religion

ohnonotgmail

So I seen the image below elsewhere. Is the question badly phrased or am I being too literal. It asks "what is your religion, if any". To my mind you only tick a box if you don't have a religion. That AI need to put an explainer telling people they need to tick the "No religion" box backs up my position I think.

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Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724487#Comment_118724487

It wouldn't be concealing it.

People could identify as they wish.

Tick box for the 'umbrella' term i.e Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc etc

Space for the respondent to write in further clarification should they wish :Roman Catholic, Sunni, etc etc.

It could remain the same formula going forward, no need to base it on 'the top 5'.

crossman47

I think its time to drop the religion question now. Its meaningless. Comparisons over time will no longer work after the change this year and many of those who say "Catholic" are anything but. They just attend for weddings and funerals.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725030#Comment_118725030

I disagree, how people identify from a religious perspective is important, as is the documented change in this figure over time. Say we didn't ask this question now, the publicly available statistic for percentage of people who identify as Catholic would stagnate at the 2016 value of 78%. This was 88% in the previous census and, at a guess, is likely to be less than 70% in the upcoming census, possibly low 60s. Not sure why you would want to hide this trend. Religious observance is something entirely different, falling at a much higher rate.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725316#Comment_118725316

The trend will be meaningless. The number saying no religion will jump because of the way the question has been changed. It may well be the new number will be more correct but it still means the trend has no meaning. I don't see why religious affiliation is useful as a number either. The churches have lost all authority so leave them all to themselves.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726791#Comment_118726791

Given the entrenched position the church hold within state funded education and healthcare, I think the trend is very far from meaningless. Nominal religious affiliation is still very much part of who we are and how we are changing as a society.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726791#Comment_118726791

Hmmmmm... the Church that has free reign to promulgate itself across the education system on the taxpayers cent and is getting a maternity hospital built for it? That Church?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724519#Comment_118724519

I think certain Catholics might have an issue with having to tick a Christian box! "We are a catholic country etc etc etc"...

FWIW the answers to the religion question shouldn't matter in a secular country. But I've heard the 78% being trotted out so many times over the last few years (As a justification for 90% of schools, among other things - how does 78% get bumped up to justify 90%?) that we have to keep measuring this trend as it declines.

It would be interesting if they separated out the religious choices of parents of children of school-going age...

They do provide a religious question breakdown by age though, and under-18s identified as "no religion" got a very large boost last time out.

[Deleted User]

I'm sorry, just got my form, but it's bloody simple to read and understand.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725316#Comment_118725316

This. The census data over time is powerful, difficult-to-refute evidence of the growth of unbelief, and of the willingness to identify as an unbeliever, in Ireland. Anyone interested in advancing the rights or status of unbelievers in Ireland would be made to try to suppress that data, or to stop collecting it.

robindch

[Peregrinus] But is there an intermediate concept of, e.g., "family data" where an interest in/right to privacy survives the death of the individual to whom the data refers, and can still be asserted by their family?

Not so far as I'm aware.

Somewhat relatedly, though, the license under which you use certain classes of data during your lifetime - for example, your priceless audio and video collections - expires with you, as it's a non-transferrable license. There were some moves a few years back to make data, acquired under license, transferrable in the case of death, but I don't imagine it's moved forward much:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2012/sep/03/bruce-willis-apple-itunes-library

matthewsemple

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118724406#Comment_118724406

I agree - the question asks for Religion and then doesn't list 'Christianity' (instead opting for a series of Christian denominations) and one other religion. Many other large world religions, that must be well-represented in Ireland, are left out. I found the options very odd as they force people who consider themselves to be a Christian but who are not affiliated to a denomination, to select 'Other'.

I might put Jedi!

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827606#Comment_118827606

If you put Jedi (and are atheist) then your answer will actually increase the reported number of those adhering to religion

railer201

If one selects Other and writes Christian, what does that mean ?

Umbrella term covering all types ?

Evangelical ?

Cultural ?

It doesn't convey a whole lot, without qualification.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118848528#Comment_118848528

If someone puts down Other Religion and writes Christian, it means that is as much as the person wants to put on the census. If they want to qualify it further, they obviously can. If they don't, that's their choice too. To be honest, if they put down Catholic, that doesn't say much about their religiosity either.

Peregrinus

Exactly. If a respondent doesn't want to identify with one of the five suggested designations (which are based on popularity of responses from the previous census) then it's up to them how much more detail they want to give. "Christian", without further qualification, could mean that they don't identify with any particular denomination (non-denominational Christianity is a thing) or it could mean that they don't want, or can't be bothered, to name their denomination, or it could mean they are uncertain to which denomination their church is affiliated.

Which means that you have to exercise a degree of care about interpreting the census data. But that's generally true of census data.

You might think you'd get better data by increasing the number of options offered. But experience suggests that increasing the number of options much beyond the 5-7 range results in worse data - respondents get bored, alienated or confused; they tick the first option that might apply to them rather than reading through the list to find the one which best applies to them; they tick more than one option; they tick no option; they tick a random option. And you have to reckon that from a policy and planning point of view, identifying the number of Catholics, Anglicans, nonreligious people, etc in the country has a relevance that identifying the number of Independent Millennial Baptists (Wesleyan Connexion) may not. So the fact that the religion question isn't good at identifying the number of Independent Millennial Baptists (Wesleyan Connexion) may not be a terribly trenchant criticism of it.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118725316#Comment_118725316

percentage of people who identify as Catholic ... is likely to be less than 70% in the upcoming census, possibly low 60s.

I reckon it'll still be above 70%, maybe not by much, but still..

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715123#Comment_118715123

No one gives a sht what her families religion is. People spend way too much time thinking other people are interested in their business.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118827606#Comment_118827606

It lists the top ones according to previous census so the ones you think "must be well represented" must not be.

Hotblack Desiato

Should that be "it lists the top ones" ?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869481#Comment_118869481

you say that, but wasn't there a kid recently who killed himself after being bullied because of his religion?

It'd be the talk of the town, something like that getting out

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869481#Comment_118869481

The problem arises when some people expect their family religion to be imposed on everyone in school.

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869377#Comment_118869377

If you take straight line interpolation from 2016 to 2022, I'd tend to agree, as this leaves the figure at 70.67% currently. However, the rate of decline since 1971 is far greater than linear so if that trend continues, the figure will be in the 60s. That said, the number of data points is tiny so this is barely more than speculation.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869481#Comment_118869481

LOL, you think people in ireland are not interested in other peoples business....

matthewsemple

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869511#Comment_118869511

That's probably correct because the previous census form also confused denominations with religions.

BingCrosbee

There are people who make an issue where there is no issue. This thread represents that.

[Deleted User]

Saying something about the census.

Were I staying in someone else's house, tonight, the CSO could feck right off if I were to fill in some fairly personal info into someone else's form.

Questions 12, 15, 16, and 27 are no one else's business and no way would I be expecting people to fill them in on a friend's form

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875206#Comment_118875206

Are you part of a group of related or unrelated people living at that address with common housekeeping arrangements ? If not, and you are not if staying in someoneelse's house, then you complete the census at your regular address

Hotblack Desiato

I've got 1.2.3.4.5... census working overtime 😁

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrcemZpOmpI

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875674#Comment_118875674

I'm talking about people spending a night at friends. They're meant to fill the census out in that house, no?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOTF-znQyw

Denver's private life was so out of whack with his public image it was unreal. By no means the choirboy he appeared to be. Cocaine, drunk driving, domestic violence.