With respect, I don't think you get it. If Russia takes Ukraine, they then have NATO countries bordering them. So the idea of taking a non-NATO country out, just to end up bordering NATO countries is absurd. This is especially the case when Ukraine weren't anywhere near joining NATO.
The NATO thing is a ruse for Russian expansionism. Putin is known to have admired the USSR and he feels (as many Russians do) that the USSR was 'unfairly' broken up and that the glory days should return. He doesn't think Ukraine is a real country. He thinks it belongs within Russia.
I'm concerned that if the Ukrainian war/ insurrection is still happening in 2025 President Trump will be off to Moscow to declare he's relaxing sanctions.
Depends very much on how much resistance Russian forces are meeting, their moral and the attitude of much of the rest of world to genocide on the doorstep of Europe in 2022. They won't be able to declare victory in one part of Ukraine and just walk away without a counter offensive from unoccupied parts. Sanctions and other measures somewhat like Covid supports - needed emergency to bring them in but hard to withdraw. The ability of Russia to fund itself will be in question.
"hE wOuLd NeVAR iNvAde UkRaInE" Part Deux
Just go talk to your mates in the Russian embassy here - you'll get a better hearing.
But to answer your question - if our existence was threatened by an imperialist expansionist neighbour, we'd welcome NATO and any defensive support on offer.
US has nuclear assets in Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands and Italy (Nuclear armed subs in the case of Italy). Joining NATO does not mean hosting nuclear assets. And I can't for the life of me think why the US would insist.
I'm not an advocate for Irish membership of NATO btw. Increased seriousness about our defence yes, full NATO membership no.
What are you talking about “the scales haven’t fallen from my eyes”?
seriously, get down off that soapbox and actually respond to what I’m writing instead of making subjective sweeping statements that have no base in what I’m saying or think but playing ti the Galery.
Yes I see the issue. Russia is evil. NATO are evil. They are both in danger of starting WW3. Demonizing one side is only half the truth. They must both leave Ukraine and stay out. De-escalation.
You think there's something left to understand about Putin that we don't already know.
IKEA have now suspended operations. They have 15,000 employees in both countries. Their reasoning is supply chain and trading conditions but they have also donated €20m for humanitarian assistance.
yeah seems to be a lot of propaganda coming out of ukraine ,9000 russians dead ? surely nobody with a brain beleives that
17000 posts I’ve made in boards and I posted one link and now you think that defines my sentiments.
Poor form boggles and again an example of how some of you can’t actually address what a poster is saying, you attack the poster.
and to the poster earlier asking me for an example of how people lack the capacity to discuss this with respect and objectively , just look at their engagement with me. How hostile have I been while trying ti make my points and look at their responses and how they have gone off on self righteous speeches that has absolutely nothing ti do with what I’ve actually posted.
NATO isn't in Ukraine, it's not even a NATO applicant.
I'm still mystified how people can try to place the blame 'on both sides' equally at this stage.
NATO is a particularly large dagger, but it's been in it's sheath for decades when it comes to Russia. If it was taking lumps out of Russian terrioty for years you may have a point, but its not postured that way.
In terms of headcount, it's been in decline for years. US troop numbers were slashed in the last couple of decades, defence spending in Europe in decline.
NATO is a sideshown for Putin.
No, I think I want to understand him better and want to discuss it. Nobody in here is making any difference on a global scale. All I am doing is asking questions and trying to understand It better.
Its horrible what’s going on , I don’t need to say that every post. Some of you just want to see updates and post all the bad things going on, that’s fine, I just want to understand it more.
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@gandalf wrote:
I think the aim for the world now is to get the dangerous regime out of power in Russia, denazify Russia and demilitarised them up to ensure they no longer have nukes.
A new policy of appeasement at this stage is merely storing up a new "crisis" further down the line. Agreeing to a scenario where Russia gets rewarded for invading another nation with redrawn borders or new autonomous puppet states is unacceptable.
Russia needs to be pushed back to Russia and driven into the ground. The sanctions lift when Russia formally agrees that it recognises the sovereignty of every nation along its borders and cannot object to any of them seeking membership of NATO or the EU at any time.
A lasting legacy of nuclear weapons that has come into stark focus here is that once a country has them, they basically have a blank cheque to violate other countries because the world does not want to spark a nuclear war.
Arising out of this should come a general agreement between all nuclear nations to dismantle their stockpiles with ongoing independent oversight and auditing. The doctrine of MAD quite clearly doesn't keep the peace. Now it's a get out of jail free card allowing nuclear powers to do whatever the **** they want, safe in the knowledge that the only countries who can stop them, won't.
While I am sure there is some tactical value in having nukes, limiting countries to (say) 20 weapons with a combined yield no greater than 50kT, is more than enough nuclear weapons to be able to wave your dick around without putting the existence of our species at risk.
Any country that doesn't agree to it, gets sanctioned out of existence. One can dream...
You seem to have some inside information that NATO is in Ukraine, or maybe you have an over-active imagination. Stop posing self-evident rubbish.
Serious bang of Neville Chamberlain of ya Wibbs.......
Königsberg was German from the 1200's until 1945, the local population today is almost exclusively Russian now, what do you propose to do with that population ?
Putin could have Ukraine conquered within the hour if he wanted but he's trying to do it with the minimal amount of civilian casualties.
Would that be the same UN security council Where Russia and China have vetos? Just saying.
There was a good post earlier about feeling shame and frustration watching on. There is another aspect to the shame -- war as spectacle. We can't ignore it or turn our backs, but that just enhances the earlier shame and frustration. And all that is exhausting.
And all virtues expended here could have been expended elsewhere in more practical ways.
Tuning out is perfectly acceptable. It's easy to forget, but even just today alone, all over the world (including in Ukraine) there have been literally trillions of loving, caring, non-violent, civilized, straightforward interactions between billions of human beings.
History won't record them, but they happened.
Doesn't matter. There is no justification in this day and age in invading a country based on what alliance it might choose and what might happen if it even did pick that 'side'. We have diplomatic mechanisms to sort through these things these days.
And the other point is that Ukraine was never ever going to join NATO in the situation it found itself with the localised conflict in Donbas, and Russia occupying part of what was internationally-recognised as Ukrainian territory. NATO may express an interest in having Ukraine in the alliance, and Ukraine may express likewise, but NATO doesn't want a piece of that action with Ukraine being in the state it was in. It just wouldn't be workable. Putin had achieved his objectives out of moving into Crimea and destabilising Donbas. This attempt to invade the whole country is brutish and completely unnecessary.
The miscalculation on Putin's part has been spectacular. He's waging a war that end up unseating him the longer it goes and the more economic strain Russia feels, and he's even got Sweden and Finland thinking about joining NATO. Bravo, Putin. Bravo. You played yourself.
You do understand the massive difference between going into Ukraine and a NATO country? Apparently you don't. He already invaded Ukraine and took Crimea.
Oh for Christ's sake, it's not a "genocide in Europe". It's an invasion by a foreign power.
Coming up to 600 pages on this horror I think it's time to get back on track and instead of history lessons and naval gazing horseshit see what we as individuals can offer or do to end this slaughter. I am making phone calls and leaving messages but I don't know what else. A monster march on the embassy and consuls in Limerick?
Any constructive suggestions welcome.
https://i.imgur.com/5whxzV2.jpg
I hope these companies keep paying their Ukrainian colleagues. Our company has paid our Ukrainian colleagues until end April. It’s not a huge thing but was proud they did it all the same.
The use of wholesale global sanctions currently being imposed on Russia by multiple countries and corporations is very much a new form of retaliation in the face of war.
It has in part came about precisly because Putin is hovering his finger over that big red button and no-one dares lift a physical finger against him. And even at that he has still raising the nuclear threat level because of those same sanctions.
The other facet of that is the digital revolution, where interconnectivity and global digitisation links ever facit of business, in contrast to previous decades where everything was largely based on bits of paper stored locally. There's also the argument that these types of sanctions work best in countries largely dependant on digital technologies. Banning Facebook or whatever in some remote or poor country is probably not going have quite the same impact as it would even in somewhere like Russia
Many of the wars in the last century have not only involved European Christian on European Christian but also Muslim on Muslim or Asian on Asian and were often limited in their theatre of war to a limited geopolitical region. I would agree the west have frequently interceded in many of those wars and caused not a few and for a whole load of reasons. One of which without doubt has been self interest.
Of victims of these wars many indeed have been cast aside, but that is not to say that atrocities in these theatres of war have been ignored. In the last couple of decades it's the direct opposite with mass media coverage, refugees agencies and movement and international aid now being a global phenomenon. But I wouldn't agree with the notion of 'oh look its white men fighting and getting all the attention as usual'. Any war that involves a superpower such as Russia, invading and thrashing another country with the potential of nuclear aggression is going to ring all the bells. Anyone crying racism over that can go take a long jump for themselves as far as I'm concerned.
I'm emailing my TDs to do more to pursue russian assets in the financial sector here and to reduce the number of Russian diplomats here. Should we consider repatriating two particular MEPs to Moscow also?
Who are the other two?
Yes but they want to be part of NATO. That is the problem. Russia is using this as a pretext for the war. NATO has given them this pretext. NATO has been expanding for decades now and Russia does not want a military empire on its doorstep. None of this justifies Russia but this is the context of the war at the moment.
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