If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
So you are happy for the RAF to patrol Irish airspace?
Just ROFL!
Irish troops also served in Afghanistan.
Only a few months ago Dominic Cummings was telling the world that it was the UK's Brexit masterplan to effectively force Ireland out of the EU (contrary to our national best interest).
For anyone to then state their contentment for such a nation to be an integral part of their own defence strategy is at best an ill judged viewpoint.
The British would still look to patrol the skies over Ireland because of fears of attack from the west. Their actions on the world stage make them a target, let them at it.
Just on the topic of no country coming to our defence...
An attack on Ireland is a de facto attack on the UK and therefore an attack on NATO. The RAF don't monitor our skies for the good of their health. It's beneficial to the integrity of their territory.
Anyone who thinks Ireland gets invaded and the British don't react to protect Northern Ireland is away with the fairies. You think the British are going to allow a hostile enemy run amok a few miles from their border?
Now, if there was a United Ireland and the British had no territory on this island, that'd be a different story. We'd be paddling our own canoe then.
It's not Nato you want to be overly concerned about. Ireland needs to save its pennies for a while and then get some nukes.
Just a handful of them, at the ready and pointed at the bully boys of the world.
They'll think twice about fecking with us then.
The world is full of nuclear weapons, and always will be. So if you cant beat them join them.
Nobody has said the we'll be "conscripting tens of thousands of young unwilling boys to fight in some far-flung place" except you.
BTW there were thousands of Portuguese troops involved in Afghanistan, too, as part of their NATO obligations.
We in Ireland live very charmed lives. By an accident of geography we are positioned on the periphery of Europe next to a (relatively) friendly neighbour. Strategically, there's not much to be gained from targeting us. Realistically there is nobody that wants to (or would feel the need to) invade us.
However, there's a number of points that the sad events of the last week have raised:
1. If attacked, any non aligned country is on their own. You cannot expect other nations to fight your battles. The often repeated Irish "expectation" that the EU, the US or the UK will intervene and bleed on our behalf needs to end now.
2. Any nation worth its salt, needs to be able to stage a credible defence/resistance to be regarded as a nation deserving of its independence. Unlike what some on Boards often declare, nobody expects Ireland to defeat any country in battle (let alone a superpower). But it is expected that we at least stage a cohesive defence of our sovereign territory even if that is ultimately futile. Nobody expects Cyprus to defeat the Turkish army if they suddenly decide to annex the rest of that island. They do however expect them to at least take the field of battle and say they tried to give them a bloody nose.
Likewise, the oft repeated mantra of "sure the RAF will protect out skys" is BS. The UK has it's own strategic interests. Brexit (and history) should have taught us by now that these interests may differ drastically (if not be completely contrary) to what our own interests are as a nation.
Ultimately I would not agree with Ireland joining NATO. It is unnecessary and I am not comfortable with the possibility of being drawn into conflicts that do not directly concern us. But that is a luxury we are afforded due to our location on the globe, nothing more. We do however, need to drop the whole "sure the world loves us" spiel, and take steps to ensure our owm security, as the recent HSE hack showed.
We don't close eyes. We offer, to me anyway, an extremely valuable service after wars and conflict. We couldn't do that as part of NATO and we have already watered down our neutrality to the point where it might come back to bite us.
No I asked a fairly simple question as you repeat RT and Putin talking points again and again on boards.ie
So for about the 10th time of asking, what have NATO 'engaged' in? Do they have an 'end-goal'?
These are fairly simple questions that warrant asking.
So if we join NATO we will stop Putin lobbing 10 Megaton bombs? Maybe he'll withdraw from Ukraine if we join?
Fair enough, but the idea that Ireland will be conscripting tens of thousands of young unwilling boys to fight in some far-flung place is a fantasy and pure scaremongering.
We sent a small number of Irish troops to Mali for example. Most people seem ok with that.
Norwegian troops were involved in both Afghanistan and Iraq as part of their NATO obligations.
It's clear you will broach no criticism of NATo so I'm not even going to bother.
There is no block on individuals going to join a nation in NATO's forces. That is how it should be left.
Ah, this nugget again.
Tell us, what has NATO 'engaged' in over the years? Otherwisew Conspiracy Form ->> that way..
On the UI stuff, let's leave that out because you have been schooled on it before. Any agreement on a UI will have all the conditions laid out before we vote on it. NATO could very well be part of it. That's all il say.
I can guarantee you won't be putting your tin hat to go to the frontline though. 😉
Yes, because that is what is going to happen.
Tell us all, how many times have Iceland and Norway or Portugal sent young men into the trenches to die for NATO?
Again, overhyping the negatives, while downplaying the potential positives.
Nonsense, it is because of what NATO does and what the primary members have engaged in over the years. If the majority vote for a UI there will be no 'conditions'. There will be negotiations and an agreement. It is for the people of Ireland to decide their fate.
Who knows, Francie, it may be part of a UI condition. Ater all, the North is part of NATO! ;)
The big reluctance of joining NATO is a hang-up of our War of Independence, that because the UK is in there, we cannot be.
After the DDOS attack, weren't we talking to France and Germany about tighter security?
I couldn't care less about this TBH, but whatever. If you think joining a military defensive pact because of the possibility of a DDOS attack iks a good idea, then have at it. But it's absolutely the weakest argument for doing so that I've heard yet.
We should never join NATO and get drawn into the toxic geopolitical wars and strategic shennanigans of it's primary members. We are good at going into places to help pacify places some of those wars/strategic shennanigans tears apart, something of actual value to the world.
Are you sure about that?
https://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/558383-nato-member-states-agree-to-new-cyber-defense-policy-following
The United States and other North Atlantic Treaty Organization nations endorsed a new cyber defense policy Monday as part of the NATO summit in Brussels.
“Reaffirming NATO’s defensive mandate, the Alliance is determined to employ the full range of capabilities at all times to actively deter, defend against, and counter the full spectrum of cyber threats, including those conducted as part of hybrid campaigns, in accordance with international law,” the Brussels Summit Communique released by NATO Monday read.
As part of the new policy, a decision to invoke Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which founded NATO, would be taken on a “case-by-case basis” involving cyberattacks on NATO members.
We already share intel on DDOS prevention with other nations. Joining NATO wouldn't mean anything in that regard and it's a pretty poor reason to do so.
It's our own infrastructure that makes us vulnerable to a DDOS attack. Not our membership of NATO.
No, you are wrong on that.
I'm all for investing in our defensive capabilities but joining NATO, or an EU army, can get to ****.
It wouldn't do any of those things.
May act as a deterrent
May share technology
May share tools
May share intelligence
Regardless, the status quo of our defence is untenable. Something has to give.
Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Portugal are members of NATO, hardly war mongering nations....
What exactly would joining NATO do to stop something like that?
Well, next time out when a cyber-attack hits the nation and puts our public services on its knees, we can all pat ourselves on the back and say, "We are a neutral country".
Yeh, the difference is that went Vegetius said, that the Roman world, as he knew it, was in constant violent struggle. That was because it was an Empire that went around ravaging every country it could and during Vegetius' time the Romans were under continuous attack from her former conquests.
Ireland doesn't do that and has been a neutral country for a 100 years. We don't need to "prepare" for a war because were not in any real danger of being in one.
Worked for John Wick.
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