Russia - threadbanned users in OP

28-02-2022 12:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707890#Comment_118707890

I think he has more than proved himself by staying in his capital when a superpower attacked his country.

28-02-2022 12:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707762#Comment_118707762

Well, fair play for admitting it. The next step, IMO, to go beyond entry-level resistance, is to stop being suckered, accept that you are living in a world of narratives, fifth-hand information, and shadow pictures like everyone else. That drives an ethically-motivated search for truth, because under the propaganda there are still rights and wrongs that are worth discovering. Start that journey and get back to me. (It's a long and boring one, BTW, and there is no glory in it, just be warned.)

As for your q: I see it like this. Russia and the West have been vying for influence in Ukraine. The West was winning hearts and minds. The West would have kept that up, the Eu was doing its due diligence. Russia invaded the East using proxies, under the guise of liberation. That conflict festered, largely forgotten. Russia upped the ante with an 'official' invasion and have driven the EU to be more open and public about its intentions. But these grand political narratives don't really matter to me. What matters is the living conditions for people on the ground. You would be stretching credibility to its limit and undermining every metric, if you argue that Ukranians would have a better standard of living and more importantly, more liberty in Russia than they would in the EU.

cnocbui · 28-02-2022 12:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707765#Comment_118707765

From what Ursula VDL said to Euronews last night, I don't think you need to, it's a slam dunk.

Varik · 28-02-2022 12:50PM

Russia is isolated and the sanction have created a partially parallel economy. The ruble is practically krusty dollars, it doesn't matter outside of their country and most foreign transaction will now entirely be done in those foreign currencies. They can print what they like as the sanctions make the exchange rate irrelevant for actual people and foreign goods were already going to suffer from hyperinflation and scarcity. Russians with large cash reserves will suffer, but most of the extreme wealth is never just held in cash. A million euro yatch is still worth million euro regardless of the price in rubles, same for gas, oil, steel, neon, or any other large Russian export.

International trade isn't the same as getting a good deal off amazon when sterling falls.

Podge_irl · 28-02-2022 12:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707860#Comment_118707860

A bloody and prolonged, and ultimately unsuccessful occupation, as the situation in Russia slowly deteriorates as the economy starts to collapse and they can't fund a massive occupation force.
A settlement recognising Russian control of the conflict areas of the east and Crimea with full Russian withdrawal

There is zero reason to think or expect Ukraine to agree to the ridiculous punitive outcome you have suggested. A long and bloody war seems regrettably more likely. But it is one that Russia can ill afford.

zv2 · 28-02-2022 12:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707890#Comment_118707890

If corruption is a reason for invasion watch out London, Putin is coming.

is_that_so · 28-02-2022 12:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707880#Comment_118707880

It's a throwback to the old days and very hard to root out. Their first decade of independence was under the shadow of Mafiya, in Ukraine's case more like black market street gangs. The tendency to backslide is still there at all levels of officialdom, largely because of poor salaries ,an average of just over $200 a month.

Wibbs · 28-02-2022 12:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707815#Comment_118707815

On the corruption front he's correct about Ukraine. Wiki link there. Second only to Russia apparently, and Russia is a joke in this respect. So unless you think wikipeda and international corruption indexes are paid in roubles to spread FUD too?

Ukraine has been invaded by a prick with Peter the Great delusions who thinks it's the 1930's and Ukraine has won the hearts and minds war and for many good reasons, but there are also many good reasons to keep our powder dry with unamimous praise that doesn't reflect the realities of the same nation.

Pussyhands · 28-02-2022 12:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707907#Comment_118707907

Well the Polish president is in favour of it

https://www.thefirstnews.com/article/poland-for-fast-track-of-ukraines-eu-membership-president-says-28221

Gatling · 28-02-2022 12:53PM

This brought a chuckle

Podge_irl · 28-02-2022 12:53PM

You would be stretching credibility to its limit and undermining every metric, if you argue that Ukranians would have a better standard of living and more importantly, more liberty in the EU than they would in Russia.

🤣 Yeah, land of liberty and economic greatness is our friend Russia. Unless that is a typo and you meant "wouldn't have a better....", then that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen written. Russia has the GDP of Spain and is an oligarchy.

28-02-2022 12:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707920#Comment_118707920

That's largely my opinion too. I'd be open to starting the membership process but granting immediate membership would be quite a poor idea. I would think also we could focus on the invasion by Russia now and corruption later.

28-02-2022 12:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707910#Comment_118707910

That a mistype or are you arguing Ukrainians would be better off in Russian than the EU?

28-02-2022 12:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707935#Comment_118707935

twas a mistype since edited. :)

Podge_irl · 28-02-2022 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707920#Comment_118707920

The election of Zelensky was partly fuelled by a rejection of the old oligarchical ways however and Ukraine is and was moving in the right direction.

Yurt2 · 28-02-2022 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707890#Comment_118707890

If you wanted to kick countries out of the EU based on their politicians' appearance on the Panama papers, there wouldn't be a country left in the EU. Tax avoidance by elites is icky, but it's not illegal. It is a problem much bigger than any individual politician you care to name.

As a pretext to denying Ukraine accession to the EU particularly under these crisis conditions where a rapid response is essential, it should be firmly filed in the 'whatabout' column

28-02-2022 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707921#Comment_118707921

Leave him off. Poland have enough of their own issues but even the Ukraine make them look civilized. I wouldn't be fast tracking the Ukraine into Europe. We have had too many basket cases before like Greece for example.

timmyntc · 28-02-2022 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707861#Comment_118707861

Russians have been stockpiling gold the past decade too, and while theyve had significant foreign currency reserves frozen, they have been moving most of their foreign reserve away from dollar for a while. Euro though is a big blow, back in June they had planned to move their wealth funds from 30% dollar to close to 0%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3ARussian_Federation_Gold_Reserves.png

Dubh Geannain · 28-02-2022 12:57PM

This thread is going down various discussion routes now as the invasion becomes normalised. The updates/propaganda from what's happening on the ground are becoming less frequent. Do seperate threads need to be created?

Last I looked it appeared that the eastern Ukrainians were at risk of being encircled by a Russian landbridge. They might be at the point of having to fall back.

Is there any sign of the pledged aircraft in the skies above Ukraine yet?

Have Belarus officially got boots on the ground now with their paratroopers?

snowstorm445 · 28-02-2022 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707773#Comment_118707773

Cyprus is a member.

Although I do agree that fast-tracking membership in this way is a bad precedent to set. Especially for countries with as much institutional baggage as Ukraine but who've been candidates for years.

nigeldaniel · 28-02-2022 12:57PM

I think people will find Ukraine had 30 years of pro-Russian presidents and politicians that did all the damage corruption wise. The Orange revolution was not that long ago and sorting out the countries corruption cant be done overnight. Most pro-Russia countries are a basket case of corruption as that is the way Russia wants them as they can be labelled a failed state as soon as they break away. No Pro Russian country anywhere on earth is a free democratic and just economy as that is not something Russia can tolerate.

cnocbui · 28-02-2022 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707721#Comment_118707721

You are inspiring me to send more. I thought my opinion of you coudn't get much lower, but hey, I make mistakes.

Speaking of corruption; Bertie, brown enevelopes, mobile phone licences, etc, etc - pot, kettle, black.

Addmagnet · 28-02-2022 12:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707880#Comment_118707880

https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2020/index/ukr

Would be more up to date and useful, I think.

Dohnjoe · 28-02-2022 01:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707953#Comment_118707953

it has been a decent thread for news and info on the situation, but yeah I'm starting to notice the whataboutery club kicking in and it going down that route, pity

28-02-2022 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707967#Comment_118707967

117th in the world is abysmal for a European country.

Dohnjoe · 28-02-2022 01:01PM

Apparently very heavy Grad strikes (multiple rocket launchers) on Kharkov this morning, reports of many dead and injured

Raoul Duke III · 28-02-2022 01:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707947#Comment_118707947

We were a basket case in 1974. And again in 2008.

Time for us to step up and welcome in our Ukrainian friends, offering them all assistance.

Dohnjoe · 28-02-2022 01:02PM

Looks like maybe the Russians are taking more of a siege mentality to cities, and bypassing them to connect corridors of land instead

is_that_so · 28-02-2022 01:03PM

Ukrainian interior ministry adviser Anton Herashchenko on Facebook

Kharkiv has just been massively fired upon by grads (rockets). Dozens of dead and hundreds of wounded.

Also The Vatican offering to mediate.

The Vatican is willing "to facilitate" a dialogue between Ukraine and Russia to end the war, Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin said Monday.

Dyr · 28-02-2022 01:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118707971#Comment_118707971

You'll generally find theres a few accounts that just run interference, spam threads and try drag the topic into unrelated arguments or personal exchanges.

See if you can spot them 😀

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Comments