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What is your ideal political party? Is there anyone who matches this?

  • 21-02-2022 5:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭


    Fully pro-Europe and keen to integrate fully.

    Restriction of welfare only to people who’ve paid sufficient “stamps” or people who are genuinely disabled and cannot work (not will not). Children’s allowance to be a tax credit instead. Abolish lone parent’s allowance.

    Strict and mandatory sentencing. No getting off on mental health (ie, the nurse who killed her children). Crimes that have a direct impact on the welfare or safety of others will be punished most gravely.

    Current laws which have no impact on others will be repealed. Abolition of arcane and anachronistic alcohol licensing laws and legalisation of cannabis and other soft drugs, legally available and at a reasonable price. Introduction and encouragement of more continental cafe style bars.

    Encouragement of innovation and business and inward investment.*

    Clamp down on unions and ignore unreasonable demands.

    Encouragement of cycling infrastructure and sustainable transport. Increase frequency off public transport.*

    Toll the bejesus out of the city centre roads (I’d suggest €10 per private car) and use the money generated to give to the private company running the M50 instead of tolling the M50 itself, thus encouraging people to bypass the city and go around it. Any surplus revenue can be used to fund public transport and cycling infrastructure*


    *These could be substantially paid for by point #2.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    I'd rather my government be Pro-Ireland rather than pro-anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,475 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    A whole government of Eamon Ryans, my fantasy.

    Seriously though this is a confusing post OP. You start off with the usual anti welfare/single mother stuff and then do a total U turn with the congestion charges and pro cycling stuff. Never seen that before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    No getting off on mental health (ie, the nurse who killed her children).

    I don't really think she "got off". They found her not guilty by reason of insanity. She's not free to go though. She was committed to the central mental hospital, which is a de-facto prison. She has an open-ended sentence in a place where she's surrounded by the criminally insane. That's exactly where she needs to be. Correct decision in my opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Green Finers


    Would a man be found not guilty by insanity in the same circumstances?

    If A Hawe hadn’t killed himself, would he get the same sympathy? You betcha be wouldn’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    What is Micheal Martin's opinion on dogging?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    There's no party in this country at the moment who are serious about either law and order or welfare reform, with the possible exception of the National Party who are led by a man sympathetic to neo - Nazi's and similar loons.

    I've been a consistent supporter of Fine Gael over the years and was hoping, when Varadkar became leader, that we might see some serious effort to prioritise workers over the welfare lifestyle brigade, but before Covid it was business as usual with welfare increases across the board.

    Fine Gael have traditionally been a centre right party. If they were infiltrated by a cadre of people committed to law and order and welfare reform, similar to the way the Left in both the UK and Ireland were infiltrated by Militant years ago, you'd wonder if the broader membership might be persuaded to adopt tougher positions on these issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    A political party that will look out for my nation's needs, its cultural heritage and the current/long term well-being for its own citizens. The people that ultimately fund the whole nation.

    No, there is absolutely no political party that matches anything I just described.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Alan Shatter was keen to target the legal profession which would have a gone a long way. It didn't go well for him. A fella who was hard to like but he was trying to do something of benefit to us all.



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There have been men found insane in the same circumstances, the law changed recently though so once guilty but insane is now not guilty by reason of insanity.

    I wouldn't want a government that don't treat victims of metal illness right.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    An anti immigration party? There probably is, there thankfully not very popular though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,021 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The were infiltrated by a "law and order" party already. They were called Blueshirts 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    Where did I say that? Show me exactly where I said that, and be careful what you want to twist

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Renua minus the abortion policy would not be far off the mark. Then again I am not sure they would have that many headline policies left..



  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You didn't need to say it exactly. Everyone can read what you meant.......



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    lol So you can tell me what I meant exactly is it? G'way ta f**k, I'm not anti immigration actually, but seeing as how you are on some pathetic judgmental high horse that knows different without any evidence, ride the f**k on

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,475 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    That woman who killed her kids seems to rile up the war on woke loonies on this site and elsewhere, for them it's once again proof that they are the ever persecuted males and the world is so unfair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    If such a party existed, it would exist for you and you alone.

    I'm not sure you understand the whole party thing. By all means correct me if I am wrong.

    I think you should take those points you laid out and search through each party's manifestos to see which align with yours.

    Then you can chose to vote for the party that you most identify with or not. Great thing about this is, you don't have to. You make the choice.

    Now, there is one thing that we should not forget about with respect to your first point and that is the free-rider phenomenon.

    Roughly speaking, in many cases some of the population will be free-riders: either they don't pay for it or they abuse it.

    For example. Street lighting. Everyone uses street lighting but do we all pay for it? Now, what if the person taking advantage of the street lighting is a tourist and has never contributed to the cost of the street lighting in this country? Are we to forbid this person walking the streets at night?

    It would be preposterous to suggest that tourists pay, so essentially they are riding free on our street lighting network.

    99 percent of the population will respect and use the street lights as intended but there will be some who want to smash them for drawing light on their activity or who may use a street light outside their bedroom window to dress by and not use their own elctricity. There will always be Free-riders.

    And the Free-Rider scenario is applicable right across the board for every facet of society, be it, welfare, roads, parks, lighting, health etc etc etc etc.

    Your second point was handled well by Brussels Sprout and the rest of your points are populism at their core. I would like to hear how this "political party" will go about solving the problems not just embark on a marketing campaign telling us - the voters - what we already know. like, we know we need to increase public transport. But tell me this. How are we going to increase public transport?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    "Cultural Heritage" is a pretty vague term that can be made to mean so many things. Who is the arbiter of culture? If we can't define what we want more precisely nobody is going to represent us.

    The people that fund the whole nation aren't the whole nation, caring for the well-being of all citizens would necessitate doing things that don't track well with those making the money who resent every penny taken in tax that doesn't benefit them directly. Some of that would be money going to cultural projects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Notmything




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    @Brian Lighthouse

    I don't think there is that much choice around much of the main Irish parties at the moment.

    All seem to have similar policies. I am for the first time contemplating not voting



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,841 ✭✭✭buried


    The Irish people are the ultimate arbiter of our own culture. We have our own culture. We are the custodians of it, we are the ones that have to look after it. In my own cultural work I have unfortunately seen that custodianship completely wither away, and I don't like it. I don't like the way it has gone, let alone where it is going. I see it as detrimental to our own self survival in some respects. This is our country, and we are an island, we should utilise our centuries old island culture to our own indigenous benefit, rather than throw it out for a few bags of digital beans or dollars or whatever else. At least keep some small semblance of it, if nothing else. There is nothing wrong with wanting that, despite what some might have you believe.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Green Finers


    So why was he vilified by society? (Hawe) and the very same people felt sorry for Morley?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Brian Lighthouse


    Oh dear, I know I said there was an option not to vote - I probably should have written that line better. I feel the need to clarify that I recommend that everyone with a vote votes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭French Toast


    Hard line on repeat offenders.

    Create barriers to life-long welfare dependency as a choice.

    Build our cities upwards as opposed to endless sprawls.

    Encourage owners of dilapidated/disused properties (both urban and rural) to sell/use them.

    Sort the hospital crisis as a matter of urgency.

    Stop wasting money on shíte like World Cup bids and white water rafting centres until we've some of the more pressing issues sorted.

    All off the top of my head with zero logical reasoning whatsoever.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My fantasy political party would run enough candidates for an overall majority, would never enter coalition and if elected would give themselves on dail term only then never seek re-election. The one eye on re-election destroys politicians and the ability to male tough decisions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 923 ✭✭✭Everlong1




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    As a conservative, templates that exist would be the historical Gaullists in France as well as the current day Republicians in the US so a mix of both. For the former there was always a mission to promote the national interest and did not have that inherent leftist distain for the past traditions (religion, social mores etc) while for the latter, outside the media bubble that is the MSM, the US conservatives in that party of the Burkean variant are for a more limited government (which in the wake of the say recent events in Canada are to be commended).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭J_1980


    “Trump Republicanism” minus the Trump derangement (stop the steal etc) , & vulgarity (mainly the rhetoric divisiveness) and minus the Christian hardcore nonsense (abortion, war on drugs, anti prostitution etc) would be pretty perfect for me.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They dont exist but a party that would control immigration properly. Tightly regulated and for the benefit of Ireland. A party that rewards workers. A party that reforms our justice system to punish criminals. Pro women's right to choose, equality for all citizens etc.

    I can only dream...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Hamachi


    Yep. That’s pretty close to my ideal too. Rigorous immigration control, that benefits this country and helps small numbers of legitimate asylum seekers, genuinely fleeing persecution. Of course that makes me Hitler in the eyes of a small cadre of misfits on here.

    I’d also like a party that really champions education, making Ireland a truly innovative place for cutting edge tech, whilst also supporting our rich cultural heritage.

    Last thing on my wish list is a party that really proactively tries to sort out the health service. The HSE is a mess right now and requires root and branch reform.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭Geuze



    More or less, I agree with all of these policies, and I feel many other people do too.

    Improved social insurance, stricter social assistance

    Alternative ways to support families, rather than directing cash at OPFP, which is proven ineffective

    stricter laws to prevent the crazy legal outcomes reported frequently in the news

    better public transport


    These should all be vote-winners.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    @Green Finers take a holiday from CA, when your ban is up do not post in this thread again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Natural Law Party. Nobody understood.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Think they do still in theory but from memory a bunch of them went off to Anontu which to me looks like the same socially conservative dustbin but on the economic left wing.

    Done a bit more reading up on Irish politics and came across the Progressive Democrats. Pity they sank without trace before my time here :(



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    The ideal party already exists, Sinn Fein will take money off the bankers and put it into affordable/social housing, free healthcare & education, free bins and council working to clean up areas more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Tourists pay tax, which are used on public amenities. Stupid analogy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I presume this is a joke?

    Bank staff already pay income tax, like any other worker.

    The bank pays corporation tax, like any other company.

    The bank already pays a bank levy, extended until the end of 2022.

    Bank shareholders pay income tax and 33% CGT, like any other shareholder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Are you referring to EU or non-EU migration?

    As members of the EU Single Market (SEM), there is freedom of movement of labour, so we can't control EU migration.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So do illegal immigrants, how do you feel about them???



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    As per some posters on here i'd like a party who:

    1. Reformed the HSE. Complete root and branch reform. There is so much waste and paperwork involved in lots of things. A decent, new IT system would be expensive, but would save a fortune in the long run as a priority.
    2. Reform our justice system. Mandatory sentencing for certain crimes with zero judicial leniency. Mandatory sentencing when hitting a certain amount of convictions, with zero judicial leniency. New prisons built as a priority. All prisons to be drug free by 2030.
    3. Reform social welfare. No more long term dole. If you want the full payment, you do at least 20 hours a week litter-picking, separating recycling, helping tidy towns volunteers etc.
    4. Child benefit to be given as a tax break after child 2.
    5. Ban foreign vulture funds. Give tax breaks to anyone with less than 20 rental properties on a sliding scale.
    6. Enforce council housing rents. Either through taking rent at source from dole or if rent unpaid, move families into large, warm, warehouses with segregated bedrooms based on family size. Communal kitchens, 24 hour security, act like an animal and you can live like an animal out on the streets. The social contract has conditions on both sides, not just the governments.
    7. Strict, enforced, skills based points system of immigration for non-EU immigrants. You don't qualify, tough. ICE units set up to find, jail and repatriate illegal immigrants. Money for repatriation to be claimed from embassy of country involved. If not forthcoming, taken at source from Foreign Aid sent to country.
    8. Foreign Aid budget to be at least halved. 1bn a year leaving the country is madness.
    9. Financial transactions out of the country to be strictly monitored, anything that looks dodgy to be frozen until a decent explanation offered. Moneygram etc to be strictly monitored.
    10. Foreign criminals to be brought from prison to a flight home. EU or Non-EU.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thanks for that. I wasn't aware there was freedom of movement in the EU...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    We can control EU migration. After 3 months anyone who cannot support themselves can be repatriated. We don't utilise this, if we did Aisling Murphy would still be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    OK, fair enough.

    It would require a lot more checks.

    Do other EU countries implement this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




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