Sacked doctor sues former employer for refusing to call trans-woman "she"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628632#Comment_118628632

I never said scientist don't believe in creation? I never even mentioned scientists

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628882#Comment_118628882

That has nothing to do with science, of course a bearded man is a man from the medical point of view and the doctor was never asked to believe the bearded man is a woman neither to treat him (in the medical sense) as a woman. It was just a matter of courtesy that the good doctor refused to show to his patients.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628886#Comment_118628886

So science says a man is a man and a woman is a woman. My beliefs say I'm a brick.

I've no problem with science. Asking me to contradict science would be accepting a lie. As a Christian I won't do that.

He was sacked because he wouldn't call a man a woman. Not because he wouldn't treat the patient.

As for you saying as a Christian he shouldn't be a doctor. What do you believe he should work at? Perhaps a cleaner. But don't worry, society is heading there. You'll be grand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628702#Comment_118628702

Sometimes I wish I was born 100 years ago and checked out before the late 90s... What a pathetic world we live in this century since the internet came along.

One eyed Jack

I’ll say it straight out - I don’t believe you have any sort of theological qualifications whatsoever.

Now, that’s besides the point as regards this particular case which involves a medical professional, not a scientist, claiming they are being discriminated against because of their religion, religious belief, scientific truth, freedom of thought, conscience or belief, the usual list of utter nonsense in order to claim he’s the victim because he doesn’t want to fulfil the requirements of the role he was training for.

This was the whole purpose of training. He was not being compelled against his will to do anything. He was asked if he would use the person’s preferred pronouns, and he retorted with a question about how his faith means he should not be forced to address a 6ft bearded man as madam.

He simply rendered himself unsuitable for the position. There is nothing prohibiting him from speaking the truth or claiming science and religion support his views, nor is there anything compelling an employer to employ him.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628799#Comment_118628799

I couldn’t say. I don’t know him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628632#Comment_118628632

If a doctor is going to put his religious need ahead of a patient, he shouldn't be in the job.

How many of you would be happy to be treated by a Jehvas Witness saying "I'm not giving you a blood transfusion, it's against my religion" or "I'm treating you at all because you're an athiest".

NewClareman

To believe in (any) God, you have to believe in a personal faith, where no scientific evidence is required to validate your position. Once you go down that road, every belief system is equally valid. Essentially your belief system is derived from your environment, including family and community. It inevitably leads to tribalism and a denigration of the of the beliefs and rights of everyone outside that tribe. We don't have to kook far to see where such unflinching loyalty gets us to.

If you're a fan of John Lennox you might find this debate with Richard Dawkins interesting. https://youtu.be/OVEuQg_Mglw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628927#Comment_118628927

There are plenty of other jobs he could have that don't mean he has to be a cleaner. I didn't say that because he is Christian he can't be a doctor, but if his beliefs prevent him doing the job he is paid to do and he cannot treat people with respect then he needs to do something else.

If your beliefs mean that you cannot be do your job then you need another job. Is it ok for him to refuse to provide contraception because of his religious beliefs?

People lie all the time in their jobs. I don't like some of the people I work with, I am not going to be honest with them, because I am an adult and need to do the job I am paid for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628948#Comment_118628948

Whether you believe i have a theological qualification is inconsequential. The facts are, I have.

I've also qualifications in transport, logistics, management and IT.

So you think a 6ft bearded man should be addressed as though he were a woman. You carry on. I think its madness. I don't see that it stopped him providing medical treatment to the patient. All I can see is him not willing to accept the absurd as being reality.

Shield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628954#Comment_118628954

I think we’re going to end up with some sort of “reasonable adjustment” like you see in the likes of Tesco who have “No Alcohol” tills for employees with religious objections to handling booze. I’m also wondering what these adjustments might be and what they could look like in action.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058232900/sacked-doctor-sues-former-employer-for-refusing-to-call-trans-woman-she

But is the doctor's religious belief the main issue here? Maya Forstater, whose case is mentioned in the article, doesn't seem to be outwardly religious. Furthermore, there is also the issue of whether complainants in sex-crime cases in which the defendant was born with a penis but has started identifying as a trans woman since the alleged crime will be compelled to refer to the defendant with the defendant's preferred pronouns when giving evidence in court - an actual 'appalling vista'.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628985#Comment_118628985

You can tell yourself whatever you want, personally I couldn’t give a fiddlers.

Are you actually familiar with the specifics of this particular case though?

The role does not require the provision of medical treatment to anyone. The role is to assess claimants for the Department of Work and Pensions. His employers didn’t care for his personal beliefs and didn’t have any interest in his personal beliefs, religious, scientific or otherwise.

It was to protect claimants from his cnutish behaviour that the employer decided to dismiss him, although they’re a bit more civil in how they worded it than I’m required to be -

A DWP spokeswoman said: "We acted to protect claimants from behaviour that would have failed to treat them with dignity, so we welcome this ruling. We expect all assessors to approach their work sensitively."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-49904997.amp

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628741#Comment_118628741

Exactly. Its really really sad that some people are unhealthily negatively obsessed about trans people existing. Seen it myself to the point a person I know is losing friends and family because her whole life is now obsessing about perceived injustice against women because trans people exist. Graham Linehan lost his marriage over it.

Spanish Eyes

The St. Vincents maternity hospital issue is more concerning. Until that entity is divested of all religious power over what procedures can and cannot be performed there, something is not right.

As for the trans issue, I feel it is a male dominance thing now. Let's call ourselves women and we can work in women's refuges, use their toilets and changing rooms, infiltrate their prisons, out do them at sports, be admitted to female wards in hospitals etc. Why so? Well because we can and are going to do so. Power and control, and quite sinister IMV. Those who are genuinely transgender rarely raise their heads above the parapet, and you rarely hear of transmen having the same issues as transwomen seem to have, for obvious reasons, they just don't have the physical strength of men so stay largely quiet on the matter.

Just look at Stonewall in the UK for example and its infiltration of the NHS and State entities, it is not right, but the pretense of equality has led to an overwhelming debate on behalf of a tiny minority of the world population. Someone is pulling strings somewhere.

In the end there is a simple fact, gender can be chosen, but sex is biological and can never change.

bertiebomber

No trans animals in the animal kingdom or alphabet animals, we are the highest creatures on the food chain and the most stupid denying our actual biology. But we must endure this rubbish until the world is in knots with itself and we are killing each other to get the upper hand on it. The old elite can hoilday and laugh as they planted all these divisive seeds to distract us while they plundered the world !!Whoop de do.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629023#Comment_118629023

Yes. From the article in the OP:

Dr David Mackereth claims his Christian beliefs are being 'coerced and threatened' in a bid to 'affirm' the increasing number of patients who identify as transgender.

Don't know about the Forstater case.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628272#Comment_118628272

Some people I guess will speak up no matter the consequences to themselves.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628497#Comment_118628497

How do you get that.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628453#Comment_118628453

The Doctor is hiding behind medical knowledge and experience.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629023#Comment_118629023

Maya Forstater was fired for her beliefs though, I think that's the difference. Where in this case it is the use of those beliefs to cause discomfort or rudeness in the course of your job. She was fired because somebody in the company complained about her beliefs which had no bearing on her job or carrying out her job.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628985#Comment_118628985

It's not a theological issue though if the person is publicly employed in a hospital.

We all have the same choice: accept our employers' requests when dealing with people, or find employment elsewhere.

You can think it's madness all you like if you want, don't take it into your workplace if your boss asks you not to (also - there are 6-foot tall ciswomen with beards out there.... just so you know)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629284#Comment_118629284

We all bring our morals into every facet of our lives

Asking anyone to leave them at the door is asking for chaos.

As for your analogy about women with beards. We know women an have hormonal issues leading to excessive hair growth. That doesn't make them men.

Asking me to believe a hormonal, physical and biological man is a woman ignores science and moves to the point of madness. Asking normally rational human beings to ignore the facts is no different

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628382#Comment_118628382

"Studies show that the brain structure of transgender people closer resemble the brains of their preferred gender."

What studies? A male and female brain is a myth...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210325115316.htm#:~:text=%22Sex%20differences%20are%20sexy%2C%20but,men%20and%20women%2C%22%20Dr.&text=%22The%20truth%20is%20that%20there,that%20differ%20between%20the%20sexes.

If a doctor is forced to report along the lines of, 'While inspecting her penis' or 'While conducting his mammary glands' they are not being paid enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629368#Comment_118629368

You don't have to believe anything. You just don't have to call them Sir if they wish to be called Madam. You could just use the person's name.

I don't believe that trans women are the same as other women. I wouldn't dream of pointing that out to them though. Because its none of my business. I also would not misgender somebody. And I am an adult so realize that sometimes what I say doesn't match my thoughts for the sake of being polite or sparing somebody's feelings. I don't go up to priests and tell them God doesn't exist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629425#Comment_118629425

You you would deny reality in order to keep up the delusion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629368#Comment_118629368

You might. I don't. I have differences with my employer all the time, but I don't let them effect my work performance. It's really not that hard.

Not no - you don't ignore science. Science ignores you.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629421#Comment_118629421

Probably not CW, but regardless of how much they are or aren’t being paid, it would still be unusual in any case for a doctor to be referring to mammary glands in men, unless there was actually a medical issue -

So men come into this world with all the right hardware for the job, but puberty sets dads-to-be down the wrong path for milk production. When a man does lactate (and yes, it happens) it is almost always a symptom of an underlying medical problem (or thanks to injections of estrogen and prolactin, which come with a slew of side effects).

https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/why-men-breastfeed-lactate/amp/