failure to make good progress at the inconvenience of other road users would be marked down in a driving test. Not cycling more than two abreast is noted in the rules of the road and I'd speculate it is mentioned in the rules of the road for similar reasons; consideration for other road users.
I would suggest that there is enough blame to go around for all the parties involved.
I think the comment by the 7 year old - 'What is she complaining about - she said we were in the middle of the road, well so was she!'
I think that summarises the entitled attitude of drivers. I driver in the middle of the road has more rights that three children in the middle of the road.
@AndrewJRenko; What allegation am I making? They openly admitted to cycling three abreast. I find it very hard to engage with you.
If you're going to make allegations about law-breaking, you'd want to be very sure that you understand the difference between ROTR and traffic law.
You asked a question about who is forcing anyone to purchase or drive a car. Perhaps it was rhetorical and you didn't want an answer, but here we are;
Experiences like this are forcing people off bikes and into cars.
it was just an amusing tweet highlighting the futility of using a vehicle far bigger than is necessary; i wouldn't read much more than that into it.
the 'force' was probably just used in the context of the supermarket itself, to reach the analogous situation; rather than a comment that we need to do it with motorists.
There isn't a connection between my contribution to the thread and your link to a tweet so I have no idea why you responded by quoting my comment. Whataboutery perhaps.
pg 197 of the rules of the road pdf would indicate that the cyclists were not obeying the rules of the road and I'm sure another page in the same book will show the motorist was not obeying the rules of the road either through excessive use of their horn and failure to keep a safe distance.
Perhaps you are trying to suggest such behaviour is condoned by other motorists and society in general. I don't know. I don't see the relevance of your comment which quotes mine.
Experiences like this are forcing people to drive and leave their bikes at home.
Who is forcing anyone to purchase or drive a car in Ireland?. It isn't like the U.S. where there aren't pavements or space for bicycles.
I don't think your link actually hits home with anyone on this side of the Atlantic.
...although during the pandemic access to the local supermarket was only allowed with trolley and the cashier gave out to me when I turned up at checkout with three items in my hands.
Is that the Strasse you really want to saunter down?
Why should people be able to store their property in public spaces for free?
My last sentence in the last post was "It seems something has been lost in translation."
Do you understand the implications of that ruling for future bikepaths; They won't be built as the obligations on the Local Authority to allocate space are too exacting. The paths must be broad enough to allow cyclists cycle side by side in both directions.
For the street in question, Kleestraße, out of a combination of necessity and bloodymindedness the Local Authority removed the parking spaces. This isn't a win for cyclists as this was already a fahrradstrasse and only residents' vehicles, disabled drivers and delivery vehicles had access to the street. Residents of the street will now have to pay for parking elsewhere which is, if it is anything like my city, probably be around 80 to 100 euro per month.
That is what is known as a pyrrhic victory.
for those (like me) who do not speak German - the german city of Hanover installed a bike lane on a street, and a resident sued because he claimed there was not enough room for car parking, and for the bikes. so the judge agreed with him - and as a result, the city removed the parking spaces
I have kept to the topic which is traffic management strategies in more enlightened countries w.r.t. the requirements of the travelling public.
It isn't my fault that many here mis-diagnose the problem and propose innappropriate or counter-productive solutions based on their prejudices against private vehicles.
For the last decade a very large brownfield quarter of the city I live in has been regenerated and private vehicular access rather than being restricted remains a component of the approach to transport and connectivity. That regeneration will continue for most of the next decade. Private Transport is certainly calmed through various strategies but isn't prohibited. People here forming their opinions from reading Twitter and Blogs seem to think that City Planners in Europe have turned their backs on cars. They haven't. It seems something has been lost in translation.
Mod: @[Deleted User]
It is not for a mod, in my opinion, to moderate views, no matter how extreme. Moderation is about keeping order, particularly those disruptive types at the back of the class.
Outside of that, do not attack posters, and keep to the topic.
Looking forward to a traffic free Capel st, it was great last year. It leaves great strand st with greately reduced traffic also. Great strand could do with some proper paving, wider footpaths and reduced parking, give the street a function other than a through route.
Then this impacts the pedestrianisation of liffey st. The Arnotts crowd will be moaning that with liffey st and Capel st pedestrianised their only exit route is via jervis st or green street. Of course that's no reason to moan but be sure the journos will play the tune of the car parking association.
Indeed. I attempted to tease out their position/view or what, specifically, they are actually proposing to allow people to commute around a heavily congested city like Dublin, but asking for a specific answer is apparently "hectoring".
Joining a DISCUSSION BOARD with no willingness to actually engage in discussion (which requires you to accept that others' opinions may not align but with the goal, presumably, of arguing a case), is weird. A more sensible option in that case would be standing on a street corner and shouting at the clouds.
Their delusion that they are the only ones with experience of living in Mitteleuropa is also funny. I'm not sure how long haphaphap has been living abroad - I'm also an emmigrant but even before leaving it was obvious to me that this sort of "lecturing from abroad" just makes you look like a twat. Having said that, I believe that there are lots of important lessons to be learned by how things are done well in other countries.
Happy to take a look at that tunnel project, however, you're still continuing to deal in slinging mud and fud so to be honest, as you've shown no interest in an adult discussion I'll not be engaging with you further.
Take care
My co-workers who live in Karlsruhe would be mostly using their company cars to pick up bulky items. My Manager who lives in Karlsruhe has a capacious Renault Grand Scenic and for all the public transport options available to him continues to drive to work when not working from home.
Are you seriously trying to claim that the suggestions from the usual suspects here on thread are trying to mimic what has been done and will be done in Karlsruhe?
Have you ever been to Karlsruhe. Do you know that there is a tunnel underneath it for cars and more tunnels are coming. Baden-Baden has similar tunnels and you can travel most of the length of the city only needing to emerge at street level close to your destination. Those Cities are anything but anti-car in that they invest to accommodate them alongside other legitimate methods of transport.
Here is a multibillion project in Karlsruhe that you do not seem to be aware of and will blow your mind: https://bnn.de/karlsruhe/karlsruhe-stadt/kombiloesung-karlsruhe-alle-infos-u-bahn-strassenbahn-autotunnel-kosten-fertigstellung
That is proper investment which is done because stealing road space from existing commuters doesn't work even though some overbearing posters here have tried to coerce me in to agreeing that space must be taken away from cars to achieve "their" dreams.
There are pages and pages of "ban cars", "restrict cars", "block cars" vendettas on this thread. Getting around Karlsruhe on my visits to the City in a car has been a pleasure.
It is only one page since a Poster said of cars "they should be demonised, they've ruined cities". Why wasn't that unarguably extreme view "moderated".
Also, of all the Cities I mentioned Karlsruhe was the one planned from the time of horse and carriage with very wide thoroughfares.
I'm the one who had to educate these posters as to the presence of Umweltzones but those tinpots are still going on about polluting cars.
The ignorance of posters on this thread is on another level and only matched by their arrogance, certain that they "know better" and happy to inflict misery on a commuting public with their half-baked ideas. They know nothing of properly operated communal car services or shared road spaces for strassenbahn and cars or how signalling/prioritization of traffic works in practice or even how the traffic lights at intersections work to maximise throughput. They don't know that most bicycle lanes are shared with pedestrians or that cars can turn left so long as no pedestrians are crossing.
Imagine a person using a wheelchair, walking frame, a stick or a blind person ?….be no fun trying to access the roadway to walk or manoeuvre oneself in a chair from a physical point of view and also with vehicles passing. .. of course we know in Ireland the likes of the council, Gardai will kowtow to the business interests of individuals as opposed to the safety interests of rank and file public… can’t be inconveniencing business people don’t ya know.
Sounds wonderful. Seriously how many people buy 2nd hand dishwashers.
and have a car big enough to fit one
sounds like the sort of thing some people in here might be interested in:
Sounds like hell. How are the people of Karlsruhe meant to pick up a second hand dishwasher with all that??? It is a fate worse than death.
Thats fine, thank you for finally answering.
I took a cursory look over a few of those places and its pretty clear that what they have now has been developed over the last 50-100 years, obviously with a large amount during post war as part of reconstruction projects. In addition, its also pretty obvious that they have introduced all or most of what many posters here have been advocating for. That you are living in a place that has done a lot of things to induce modal shift, and post many times about how great it is and how you have many options to get around, its difficult to square that circle with your apparent disdain for introducing these measures in other places. Honestly struggling to see how you make that make sense.
Lets take a brief look at one of your examples, Karlsruhe. A city with a population of 300+k. Keep Dublin, with a population of 1.3 mil, in mind for comparison to see how far Ireland is behind.
Tram Network
Has 9 tram lines. Network started in 1897. Between buses and trams the PT network carries over 100 million passengers a year.
Bus Network
Strangely difficult to find much info on this at a network level outside of the passenger number I mentioned above.
Bike Infrastructure
A network of connected bike infrastructure, granted a lot of it is just paint and unprotected, but a connected network all the same.
Great bike parking facilities, including the new bike parking facility at the main train station which they created by removing car parking. It now holds 600 bikes
Driving
Emissions based restrictions cover a large area
Its got a massively successful car sharing scheme in operation
Walking
Has a fairly large area of pedestrian only streets
I spent a summer in Freiburg am Brisgau in 1998, even then it was beyond any Irish City that exists today.
Its probably around size of Cork City.
Was excellent for bikes and trams back then, its probably even far better today.
I will not share the city name as it is an unexceptional German city and I don#t want the tag team abuse which is part and parcel of the groupthink on this forum. If you visit cities like Baden-Baden or Wiesbaden or Karlsruhe or Nürnberg or Freiberg you'll see proper transportation solutions implemented intelligently. It would be a good change from visiting Twitter feeds of the self-annointed car hating Swamis who you venerate.
I'm not sure leaning into the hysteria is the smart move.
Moving on, still waiting for you to share the city name that you like to hold up as a shining example. Or a similar one in the same country if you want.
You haven't got a clue. My preference is always to go on foot where practical. Cars and their users are not per se detrimental to society. You have been brainwashed if you actually believe that but since this is where the cult members hang out I am not surprised to hear this dogma in this sub-forum.
The irony of it all is that you see no issue with the likes yourself enforcing a car culture on everyone else that is both unsustainable and detrimental to society.
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