Any thoughts on this given the large uptake of vaccination for Covid in Ireland?
So you want to mandate vaccines during a wave of a variant the vaccines don't seem to work much against if at all, in order to... what? Stop people going into ICU with a variant that has already been outcompeted in this country?
Good news! I think your problem may already have been solved, no mandates necessary.
Its mostly being prolonged by the unvaccinated.
But is it? That recent survey showed 70% of folk getting more intensive treatment for Covid in hospital were vaccinated.
Unvaxxed were disproportionately represented. But they weren't in the majority when you looked at folk actually there for Covid treatment, despite that being a cornerstone of the narrative thus far.
"Some 27 of the 322 patients not requiring oxygen were not vaccinated - 8 per cent, while 42 of the 130 patients who did require oxygen or ventilation were unvaccinated (32 per cent)."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/most-hospital-patients-with-covid-19-have-no-viral-symptoms-review-finds-1.4776322
How?
It's not though
That is interesting. Have you a link for that?
A friend of mine died of Covid last week and had been in hospital, in and out of ICU since November. That was Delta. It does seem to take a strange and cruelly long course in some people.
Omicron variant isn't over loading the most limited resources. Its still Delta and ICU beds. Your premise of not needing vaccines anymore is based on Omicron not Delta. But the vaccines also reduce the hospitalization from Omicron.
The data suggests that three doses of vaccine provided an estimated 68% drop in the risk of being hospitalized with Omicron compared with people who were unvaccinated.
If we all had Omicron but none were sick enough to go into hospital. Lock down would end.
But if everyone was still unvaccinated the system would still be in crisis.
Omicron will over take Delta and hospitalizations will fall. That will be due to the vaccines.
All this is kind of redundant now though.
Hopefully.. and before you call me a doom and gloom merchant..
On 31st Aug 2021 I had posters berating me because I questioned whether our October 22nd opening and ending of certs would go ahead.
It didn't.
Two months is an eternity in 'covid time'.
If these people are in icu with delta, have they been there for a couple of months like?..
Has everyone in ICU throughout been in there for a couple of months?
Yeah it can really be quite a while in ICU. As @MilkyToast mentioned above a friend, who sadly died, had been and out for a good few months.
I need some help with an article that I am looking at on the Irish Times (https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mandatory-vaccination-not-the-same-as-compulsory-1.4774909).
I am having difficulty reconciling the content of this article with the content of a second article published earlier in the week.
The key point is Mandatory vs compulsory. From the first article:
Mandatory means that it is not legally punishable or enforceable to be (un)vaccinated. It does have a cost though, denial of access to social goods/services, for example. This is the system that we and many other EU countries have in place now (the article states).
Compulsory means that it is legally enforceable, through fines (presumably), or other 'force'.
Now, my problem is, how does the content of that article reconcile itself with one of the points of the following article (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-state-passes-1-million-confirmed-cases-as-martin-rules-out-mandatory-vaccinations-1.4773139) that stipulates that mandatory vaccination (which we have implemented) is ruled out by Martin?
My primary thought is that the first article is inaccurate. Please forgive my confusion, but I cannot wrap my head around this.
I have a couple of anti-vax friends who are delighted with the latest news about restrictions. They said they feel like they have been in hiding for 2 years and somehow were never caught. One did get Omicron so I told him that nature vaccinated him!
This is being shown in the data from several countries. Hospitalisations in that cohort is also increasing. Booster effects don't last very long, not even a fourth has much effect., as Israel have discovered
Nope, at a population level in Denmark the data is clear, if you want to increase your chances of staying out of hospital, 2 or better 3 doses.
https://twitter.com/andlasDK
Why did you post a bunch of graphs with an end date of December 1st, when the first Omicron detected in Denmark was on November 28th in two inbound travellers from SA?
And a Twitter account that is clearly of the opinion that current data does not support boosters or vaccine passes?
Data is up to yesterday, the graph is in 2 month intervals.
I responded to the OP who posted the twitter account, 2 posts down was the hospitalization data.
If it is an anti-vax account you will have to take that up with her.
Ah, got you.
It's not quite up to date, though.
Here:
It's worth being mindful that these patterns aren't always identical between countries. Or even between states in the US. Useful for general trends, sure. But I wouldn't get too particular about the stats.
The variations across the states is particularly fascinating.
they tell us all these ICU cases are unvaxxinated inferring that they are the belligerent types who'd rather die than take the vaxx.
but don't tell you that many of them are very ill and unable to take the jab.
Where is that split?
It's just demonising people who choose to say No.
Like the vaccine pass (totally made up and no science to it) it's just another tool for vaccine coercion and punishment for those that say no.
Speaking of made up science, what illnesses prevent people from being vaccinated?
Some people are known allergic to some of the passive ingredients used in vaccine production. However we are talking something like 1 in 100,000 or so here, not 5-10% of the population.
Incidentally, there are people out there who have opted for deliberate infection rather than vaccination.
That worked out well for her.
Where are you getting your allergy figures, and are you referring to the immediate, very mild allergic reactions some experience after they get their vaccination? That in itself is not a contraindication for vaccination, so again, what illnesses are you referring to?
If they are in ICU with Covid, what would be the point of vaccination?
A friend of Mr OBumbles has COPD and some other complicated things going on - I don’t know the disease names. But from the type of treatment she gets, they're serious.
Medical advice she got was not to take the vaccine.
Received wisdom was that getting Covid would likely kill her. She tested positive a few weeks ago (test prior to treatment for something else, not due to symptoms). Not dead yet. FWIW.
People with COPD are considered to be at a higher risk for developing severe illness from COVID-19 so are prioritised for vaccination. So it most certainly is not an illness that prevents the person receiving the vaccine, in fact it is the opposite.
Blood clot related deaths following use of Oxford/AZ was 0.3 per 100,000. I suspect physicians not aspirating to make sure they had not hit a vein played a major part in this number.
I was in favour of mandatory vaccination because the coverage needed for herd immunity against Delta meant that the 1% or so (probably lower) of people with genuine medical reasons not to get jabbed was all that society could afford to have unvaccinated. Not too sure with Omicron.
There are no large blood vessels in the deltoid/shoulder muscle, vaccinators are told NOT to aspirate when injecting the vaccine into the muscle. Maybe you are using retired Nurse, John Campbell as a reference point.
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