I would put genocide in there as well.
I didn't ask for modern!!!!
I made a historical reference that you used a modern reference in a silly futile attempt to discredit., but hey, rewriting history is your speciality.
Go back to my original post and point out where I defended the BA, more silly nonsense from you.
Eh no. Books and libraries are AWESOME
I would like to take the opportunity to highlight several excellent and entertaining podcasts published by Irish historians , who may not yet be well known. I have no links to these guys
Irish History Podcase by Fin Dwyer - Some savage detailed programes dedicated to Ireland in the time of the Vikings, Normans and the Famine. Seriously good stuff - there are after all large gaps in Irish history that gets ignored
Three Castle Burning - Mostly on Dublin, but rather good by Donal Fallon
The Irish Revolution - by none other than Professor Mick Laffan
And History Ireland (the magazine)
Blanch is talking fact. Even the concept of County Identity, never mind nation, was a creation of the English .
Educate yourself of Brehon Law (to be fair , proof that the Irish were not savages) and Tribal Septs (which could spread into two different counties )
The O'Neills of 1601 most certainly had no notions of Nationhood, but out for what land and riches he could get for himself. More than happy to smash his fellow Gael for a bit of land
The common view of Irish history is both simple and simplistic:
We were all happy lads living together under one nation until the nasty Brits came along, took all our land, made us speak English, oppressed us for 800 years, starving us along the way, before dividing our once great and peaceful land in two and allowing Protestant overlords to subjugate the Catholic people of the North.
If you question that narrative on here, expect a world of abuse to reign down.
The abuse comes from simpletons. Bring it on, always up for a laugh and made to feel better that no matter how bad things are, it really could be worse..
They actually take time to think up their muck, but the takes the informed minutes to rebut it would even detail that even they could realise that they are getting rodgered. Just depends on how fast one may type. Just watch their reaction when their beliefs and or lies just get destroyed instantly. Poor dears
Anyway 200 odd pages, and like all discussions of this very topic, not much of it is dedicated to proposals and plans to make a UI possible or discuss future stuff
Bit like the Anglo Irish Treaty , we get bogged down in mostly irrelevant matters or matters that were never actually truly ever discussed or considered (no one ever discussed what an Irish Republic was back in 1916-1922, bar maybe Connolly, and his socialism was never going to fly in land hungry Ireland )
The problem as we have seen in 200 odd pages is that there are truly some embarrassing thickos that have little to no understanding of the history of the island. Not even the most basic of facts eg when Partition actually came into being and the date . Ffs
Anyway, what kind of country would be tolerate ? Some easyish starting points
Federalism , yes or no?
Total separation , politically and legally from UK (unless UK joins the EU )
Location of Parliament
Do we redraw Constituencies ? Some "Southern" towns up north like Letterkenny or Strabane would be more at home with Derry City - How is this achieved without risk of looking like a bit of Gerrymandering ?
How do we fund Northern Cities like Belfast , Derry , Lurgan at the expense of Cork, Kerry , Limerick , Galway? What would the powerful TD's like Healy Rae's and the Lowrys and McGrath's of this world think ? Would that really expose a partitionist out look at resentment ?
How do we control and REDUCE the numbers needed for the Civil Service and local government - Cuts got to happen. Which counties feel it ?
Health services
How do we address British economic infrastructure and assets in NI ? Who pays what? Is it combatable with the South ?
While we share the same / similar legal system and our criminal and property laws are pretty similar (Even the north followed the South's legal tradition of not always sharing the same legal views on property and criminal law ) how do we consolidate both jurisdictions ? This might be easier as London forced NI to accept stuff like gay marriage and expansion on abortion (ironically championed by SF - showing that they can play the game)
Belfast (a pretty daycent place to go for a drink ) is still visually divided. Ironically , taking down those walls might hurt tourism . Can we get them all to step away from the misery tourism eg murals and monuments ?
There are loads of other things to discuss - the idiot guide to the history of the island has been done to death by now ; so has the justification of IRA terrorism from the 1980s onwards , so let us move on a bit
This is you:
P.S. What modern day murder are you talking about? Paul Quinn? Jerry McCabe?
I gave an example.
And you using the dead to deflect for the BA.
this is just the re-writing of history to an exclusionar partitionist viewpoint i am afraid.
I've only addressed this absolute nonsense directly with both yourself and Mark O'Daly on multiple occasions over several years now, Blanch.
On each occasion, both of you have run away from responding when your points were clearly demonstrated as incorrect.
I even predicted the last time on this merry-go-round that the position would be rapidly abandoned, you'd all shut up about it for a few months and then go for it again as if it hadn't been completely and utterly rebutted.... Quelle surprise, round and round we go.
That's not to say that the, 'we were all happy families and then the Brits came along, 800 YEARS' nonsense is accurate, but if you're going to sneer at people for an intentionally blinkered view of the history of this island, then you could at least get your own house in order first and stop trying to peddle your own equally inaccurate, grossly simplified view.
Thats the routine in multiple debates. Its handy to keep them book marked then you can easily dispense with their regurgitated nonsense.
In a State set up explicitly to guarantee that outcome. Quelle surprise !
Id have no hassle with seeing belfast as the political capital and admistrative spread around the country (anyone remember decentralisation)
I do feel as regards drawing constituemcies,that the STV is best suited to larger 5-7 (possibly upto 9)) seater constituncies
I dont feel the same urge to cut huge local government employment numbers as i believe its an idologically driven blunt tool,that deosnt work and is fubdamentally 0a failed policy (but maybe too broad a discussion for this thread?)
As for belfast regarding murals (i do like em,and feel they add to urban envirnoments) and monuments,i certainly wouldnt want anyone to remove likes of commerence to shankill bombings or to nationlists/republicans killed,this is history of the country and its not going anywhere......but the best hope of peace walls coming down is education and increased oppurtunities a utd ireland would bring
Curious to know why anyone would want a United Ireland?
Bit mischevious in terms of facts there,as it was orginally sold,NI roughly to be where the bann is (antrim & down),still only countries retaining a protestant majority
The border commission wasnt completed until 1926 (always makes me smirk,partionists screaming about needing clarity to avoid mayham -ala brexit-,when their precious border wasnt finalised until well after civil war)
The 100 year seal on the anglo-irish negociations is up this year,which should (imo) show up how conceited ffg,near century of civil war politics was
Ok, so you don't recognise the state you live in?
Brilliant, just brilliant..... ROFL
The only people who dont recognise the Republic of Ireland are the New IRA nutters who killed Lyra McKee. That is the company you keep.
No it's true, the PIRA killed more civilians/nationalists/Catholics than the British Security forces.....
Those facts eh....
Slight difference. The British Army were there as peacekeepers. They shouldn't have killed anyone directly or indirectly, other than when engaged with armed paramilitaries.
it's not true at all.
the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries were 1 group, ergo that 1 group killed more civilians then the PIRA.
This post has to be a wind up?
The Treaty is now fascist?
Do you just lump in any buzzword and soundbite that comes into your head and you think that wins the argument?
It's clear you cannot formulate a coherent reasonable response to the questions put to you
Perhaps, but let's not forget they were directly targeted by the PIRA.
The BA was welcomed by both the IRA and the nationalists when they were deployed to keep the peace. But the IRA, humiliated by that, decided to take the battle to them...the rest is history.
No, they were not 1 group.
Maybe in your head, they were but CAIN, who is the gold standard here, clearly categorises them as two separate distinct groups.
I guess when the facts don't conform to reality, one can always make up new facts, is that right EOTR?
they were 1 group working for the same goal, the goal of keeping and upholding the sectarian apartheid state of NI.
No, they weren't but good luck having that echo chamber discussion with your Éirígí and New IRA buddies.
Is you completely misrepresting my comment a wind up?
The fascists later became FG, (who idolise a terroist). FF came from terrorists.
Your the man turning a conversation on the British and the Irish state to the IRA. The usual deflection to sell the BA as 'legitimate' despite all the murders of civilians.
The IRA signed up to peace. The BA are still at large and operating.
The BA is the national army of the United Kingdom.... what do you want them to do? Just disappear? Do you think the UK has no right to its own army?
It was part of the GFA that NI would remain as part of the UK, therefore the UK has every right to station troops in its own very country, just as the Republic has the right to station troops in Louth or Donegal. Weird argument tbh.
If the IRA wanted the BA to just disappear then why wasn't that part of their red lines when it came to the peace negotiations? Oh, that's right, it WAS part of the red lines for years, but it slowly but surely dawned on them that they were not going to push the BA over the Irish Sea.....
But I see it must be very painful for you that the BA still exists in NI armed and ready to counter any extremist threat from lunatic terrorists, while the PIRA are claiming expenses from the Queen or running diesel rackets. They did after all decommission, did they not?
And I have no idea why you dropped the term fascist into discussions around the treaty.... but 'Go Buzzwords!!'
Christ, your unsubstantiated claim that the IRA killing more Catholics and Nationalists has now been rebutted for hilarious enough , now you make this claim . FFS
I am pretty certain that you do not even know what you mean by accusing people of "re-writing history"
YOU HAVE PROVEN NOT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LEGAL TERM, DURESS, MEANS AND WHAT IS REQUIRED TO ESTABLISH A CLAIM OF DURESS. If you ever get around to it , then you might realise how ridiculous your allegation is . You claimed that the Treaty, a legal document, was signed under "duress". And yet, you do not understand what the word means . HA HA HA H A
Baby steps, going back to what I said : Which of the following is factually wrong
My god, when ever you get around to reading State Archives covering this period, you are in for a nasty surprise that will rip apart all of the utter mythical nonsense that you understand of that period .
You do not even come across as someone that has spent any significant time in the 6 counties or being in the company of Unionists either. A lot of naivety
No, you have painted the green-tinged fantasy picture of a Brian Boru and others ruling the island back in the day. It didn't matter what Brian Boru or any other feudal chieftain called himself, there was no Ireland back then, in fact Brian Boru wouldn't have known much about Ireland back then.
Ireland was only ever united under British rule.
Your whole post is a wind-up.
From calling FG fascists to FF terrorists, you haven't a clue about history, just using buzzwords to be controversial and inventing ideas to back up romantic notions.
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