Any thoughts on this given the large uptake of vaccination for Covid in Ireland?
Was the carrying of Identity Cards mandatory in the UK at the time?
Exactly.
The true story of Harry Willcock in England after WW2 is interesting in this regard. He refused to show papers even though it was still required under emergency legislation years after the war ended.
”This Act was passed for security purposes; it was never passed for the purposes for which it is now apparently being used. To use Acts of Parliament passed for particular purposes in wartime when the war is a thing of the past—except for the technicality that a state of war exists—tends to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs. Further, in this country we have always prided ourselves on the good feeling that exists between the police and the public, and such action tends to make the people resentful of the acts of the police, and inclines them to obstruct the police instead of assisting them.”
And even if it was true for the sake of argument in what liberal society would such thin gruel be acceptable for mandatory vaccination.
Spoken like a true communist
Since there isn't any other reason listed of why they were hospitalized or end up in icu like list of their other ailments or state of their health which perhaps may even be the reason why they were not vaccinated, then simple vaccinated vs unvaccinated ratio does not hold any value other than rile up those less intelligent individuals.
9 out of ten people who died were very old and very ill people mostly with two or more other comorbidities. That is well established fact. The rest probably had some comorbidity which was not yet diagnosed. The number of healthy young people who died "from covid" is so little that it is pretty much insignificant with exception of that every death is a tragedy for family and friends of people involved.
What make "but but unvaccinated" argument even more comical is that so far everybody from vaccinated camp somehow refuse to even acknowledge that there is something called natural immunity which usually come after recovery. That there is a group of people who appear to be genetically immune from sars cov2 and that this mechanism where they can not be infected no matter how often or how much they are exposed is being studied in order to develop treatment.
No, simple minded have it easy. They so desire to belong... Either you are with us or against make them to take the holy fight for you know, health of society or something similarly abstract but importantly sounding.
A mandate is a directive and a public health one in this case. It can be removed.
How could it be mandatory to have a cert if you have a choice not to have one?
The certs are a public health mandate in the face of a pandemic. When that pandemic comes to an end there is no further need for them. It's one thing to use them to coerce the small number of unvaccinated, quite another another to consider keeping them to make a booster a minimum level of vaccination to access public arenas.
Just to be clear, I am against mandatory vaccination and absolutely in favour of choice. I do not see that as forcing you to do anything you don’t want to do.
You do realise that you're advocating for forced boosters here? Boosters of vaccines which have now clearly reached the limits of their efficacy. Their supposed aim is to keep disease out of crowded areas, which they can't do anyway with something like Omicron. Once disease prevalence falls away that risk goes.
They indicate if a person have been vaccinated, and allow those who posses them to enter premises/travel where entry is restricted.
What benefit do you think the passes provide at this point and going forward?
Let’s keep the passes and continue to give people the choice of whether to get vaccinated or not.
If it's over can we all just calm down about the vaccine now?..
Like, it's at the stage where it doesn't really matter if the unvaccinated have the sniffles for a day longer than the others..
Let's all just make sure the passes go away and move on..
This pre-print appears to show boosted primary cases having half the transmissibility of unvaccinated primary cases in a household setting.
When considering the vaccine status of primary cases, i.e. trans-missibility, we observed no difference in the OR of infection between households with the Omicron and Delta VOC. An unvaccinated primary case was associated with an OR of 1.41 (CI: 1.27-1.57) for potential secondary cases compared to fully vaccinated primary cases, while a booster-vaccinated primary case was associated with a decreased OR of 0.72 (CI: 0.56-0.92).
Lol. Ok 👍
There is zero evidence of this being the case with omicron. It's outdated information at this stage
I saw someone posting a very recent study on the other thread from Berkeley University California where they observed cases over last December.
70k cases. 53k omicron 17k delta. Between omicron and delta they observed a big difference in hospitalisations and ICU and a massive difference in deaths. Just one death in the omicron group vs 14 in the delta group. Thats factor 44.
When they brought vaccination status into it they noticed vaccinated people do much better than unvaccinated with delta. But with omicron they noticed no difference between vaccinated und unvaccinated. So in other words the current batch of vaccines does nothing against omicron.
Thats just another confirmation of what scientists and medics are observing for the last couple of months.
With our high vaccination rate and the above in mind plus the fact that omicron will bring us all natural immunity anyway, entering the endemic phase of this - with all that in mind I think it would be foolish to even start a debate about mandatory vaccination. It wouldnt help in any way with the virus but would just be another thing to argue about and probably vehemently too.
Even Germany is starting to peddle back. The governments advisory ethics commission is having second thoughts seeing latest developments and government itself has kicked the can into mid February for now. No doubt hoping the problem will have gone away all by itself by then.
The signs are everywhere there is just no need for stricter measures or any kind of escalation.
Good, as it should be… non team players are not desired anywhere or in any facet of life where teamwork and everyone trying is needed.
But chances are that it was an unvaccinated host that spread and enabled those deaths.
His friend is not restricted by the businesses.
His friend is restricted by legislation that forces the businesses to restrict his friend.
Vaccinated people get over it quicker and are therefore infectious for a shorter period. Vaccination shortens the duration of peak viral load. But you're going to ignore that fact because you don't like it.
Where did I say anything about a hypothetical model? November happened, the figures are out. Just skip the extra steps and call it fake news or a HSE conspiracy.
I am in Lanzarote, in the restaurants along the strip they do not check certs, but if you go into an Irish pub near the port they do.
It's the same.accrids the world, restrictions are being imposed,ore and more on non vaccinated individuals.
Ah, yeah, the vaccines have us in a much better position than some hysterically modelled hypothetical situation that didn't really materialise anywhere..
Disproportionate. As in, if vaccinations didn't do **** you would expect the same proportion of people vaccinated to die as unvaccinated. The November numbers show that unvaccinated people were four times more likely to be hospitalised and 11 times more likely to end up in ICU.
A blind person can’t drive a car… are they discriminated against on health grounds or are they just unable to be accommodated because it’s impractical, unsafe and not appropriate…
for now, your friend is restricted by said business because it’s in their eyes impractical, possibly unsafe and not appropriate… sucks but there you go.
Obesity is a burden on the health service too. Obesity is a huge problem for covid patients.
Unvaccinated are no more the cause of spread than vaccinated.
You know this.
Please be wary of the principles being established. It could be your particular subset next.
Do they?..last numbers I saw a couple of weeks before Xmas it was pretty much 100% vaccinated died..
Nobody is catching obesity, nobody is having to seal off entire wards and gown up because a patient is too heavy. You know this, stop pretending otherwise. The control group exists, and they make up a disproportionate number of covid deaths.
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