Any thoughts on this given the large uptake of vaccination for Covid in Ireland?
I agree. If you want mass protest on the street like Australia, Netherlands and parts of US then that is the way to go.
Bodily autonomy is something that I and many others agree with. Given our percentage vaccinated a mandatory programme should not even be required. People can (and should be) allowed treat their bodies as they see fit (barring mental illness). A vaccine mandate would be so far from the thin edge of a wedge that the govt would be terrified to impliment it. You are talking about a government who barely enforced previous lockdowns before everyone was vaxxed. Businesses in large parts of the country wouldn't play ball on this either.
There are already 70,000+ views on thejournal article. Compare that with the usual views they get.
They can see the reward in it. We are going to see this expanded on and there are going to be more and more articles talking about mandatory vaccines in the coming weeks.
Once again, when you look at the human rights charter, the right to live and for society to protect the vulnerable trump all else.
Presume you support those human rights?
Usually, when this sort of thing is fired over our heads, it means that something is already being planned that would cause an uproar, but won't seem as bad when they come out and say..."we are not going to introduce mandatory vaccines"
It isn't a case that one right abrogates another. Its more a case of you first respect people's rights, then you do what you can within a limited moral framework.
The whole idea of "the greater good"- which is a fancy way of saying the ends justifies the means - is that anything bad, evil, unwise should be an "option" because it might in theory lead to a good outcome ('safety'). Its throwing away your moral compass because having no limits supposedly gets results.
I'm totally against that.
Also, I don't think that stripping people of their political rights has been shown to be key to a safer world anyway. I see no proof that limiting freedom and quality of life has improved our situation. Do you?
All countries are pretty much at a similar level of effectiveness. Some didn't lockdown (Sweden, South Dakota), some locked down and then went back to normal (UK) and some combined maximum restrictions with maximum vaccine uptake (Ireland, often with the highest infection rates in Europe and no signs of slowing down atm).
It was in the minutes of a NPHET meeting I believe, a public document. No, it just means that there may be a discussion by the members of a non-statutory body who may offer an opinion on the question. Martin is against it and you'd expect Leo and FG to be the same. That means no legislation.
The only thing is that the Government play a game where they like to make it seems like NPHET is responsible for the Government's decisions. They like to muddy the waters.
Didn't the gov say they were against vaccine certs but that they felt they had to follow NPHET's recommendation? Outrageous in a way since it means responsibility for the gov's decision gets transferred to Dr Holohan, Dr Glynn etc. along with unpopularity.
However its instructive for the future. The government can just say "We don't like the idea of mandatory vacc but we're bringing it in against our own opinion on the foot of NPHET advice".
Good.
But....watch for this.
An introduction of a vaccine pass system that will "replace" the mandate, as the mandate doesn't respect the rights and sensitivities of the people to self determine their vaccine status.
The problem is, that non statutory bodies such as Board Failte, have been instrumental in policy right thru the past 18 months.
I think it's a story that has grown legs that it doesn't merit. Even if NPHET ever have chat about it it won't be this month nor next month, at which time the existence of NHPET will be up for discussion. If the DoH still want contributions from interested parties they can do so. I don't think there is any political appetite for such legislation anyway, even in government.
Yeah they do but something like this would need new legislation and it's a hugely tricky area. Legislation has lots of inputs to make sure it's robust. A NPHET opinion would be one of very many inputs.
100% -when we stopped paying for the news we consume and news agencies started depending on advertisement revenue driven by clicks the die was cast.
As someone who works in healthcare and very much pro-vax, I would be very anti mandatory vaccination. I may not agree with people who don’t get vaccinated and think they do so mostly from a position of ignorance, I am certain that each person should retain the choice on what they put in their bodies.
I do agree with Eddie on this one, just like a few weeks ago the leak was that bars would close at 6pm or not open at all, then it made the 8pm closure seem a more measured response to increasing numbers, I think new restrictions are going to be placed on those without a cert, perhaps barring entry to all shops/supermarkets.
Can you show a precise example of where workers currently have a mandatory requirement to be vaccinated?
I did a Google, and only came up with this guidance from May 2021:
It certainly advises that healthcare staff and folk like Gardaí should be vaccinated against Hep B, but says nothing about it being mandatory.
Just in passing, in what seems somewhat wistful given the Covid context, it also says
"9.4 Hepatitis B vaccines
...... The vaccine is 80 to 100% effective in preventing infection or clinical hepatitis in those who receive a complete course of vaccine.
...... Between 90%-100% of vaccinated persons who develop anti-HBs concentrations ≥10 mIU/ml after a primary series are protected from significant HBV infection for at least 20 years and probably longer."
Vaccines aren't under emergency approval, there is already mandatory vaccines in EU countries and Ireland has had them in the past (smallpox) and many countries have them for particular professions. It could go to court, but I wouldn't see it getting very far.
Do you think the government mandating vaccination for covid is the right thing to do?
It's neat that this thread has attracted all the paranoid people so that know who to put in the concentration camp.
@astrofool The vaccines for Covid19 are still under emergency approval/authorisation to the best of my knowledge.
Oh right so Martin is simply following in the footsteps of Lord Palmerston?
No, it's unnecessary for Ireland, I said that already.
They're not, go and look at the EMA website for information (or FDA if that floats your boat).
Not sure what you're getting at, facts seem to be in short supply here.
What I'm getting at is that citing what the British Government did in Ireland in the 1850s doesn't tell us much about ourselves. Its outside of our political tradition. We don't see Lord Palmerston cited as a typical Irish leader in any other context.
You might as well say that 'we' fought in the Crimean War so we could get involved in the dispute over Ukraine now.
No they dont. Which right is the one that says anything about society protecting the.vulnerable?
Article 3 of the ECHR, is the right to bodily integrity.
There are mandatory vaccines for gardai.
Seeing some of the quotes from the time it's clear that nothing much around it has changed for Ireland:
Ireland was not included in this new vaccination exemption scheme, so an Irish Anti-Vaccination League emerged in 1898 to address this. However, it never achieved the same level of popular influence as its British counterpart. The public response in Ireland seemed to be a mixture of amusement and bemusement. The Southern Star newspaper in 1898 observed that: "Englishmen sneer frequently at Irish agitation, but to the Irish mind nothing could be more ludicrous than the anti-vaccination crusade."
Anti-smallpox vaccination activism in Ireland (irishcentral.com)
Fully vaccinated, pro-vacccine, had my yellow card for travelling in the 90s in Africa. BUT…..mandatory injections? No fn way!
these vaccines were 95% effective when designed 2 years ago. Then a booster was needed. Now a 3rd or 4th booster (depending on vaccine type).
viruses mutate so unless the vaccines are adapted ( I sincerely hope they are) we are always playing catch up. Mandating anyone to put a medicine in their bodies if they don’t want it is wrong. For the general good of society my arse
Could it be that the vaccines are prolonging this epidemic? (Just a thought)
They got their headline and the perpetually offended got their week off to an angry start, everyone's happy.
Article 2 and 8.
In this respect it is relevant to reiterate that the Contracting States are under a positive obligation, by virtue of the relevant provisions of the Convention, notably Articles 2 and 8, to take appropriate measures to protect the life and health of those within their jurisdiction
Mand Vaxes have been tested before by the ECHR.
https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-209039%22]}
There aren't. One can choose not to be a Garda.
Seems about right..
Also allowed them to put the 8PM closing time on the long finger.
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