The claim is relevant, I don't see the need for Sinn Féin to condemn Russia I don't think they should condemn them, among the major world powers Russia is the country least in need of condemnation.
When in trouble, reach for the whatabout Leo card.
Will you just address the Russian issue or continue to deflect?
Yet another reminder. This thread is about SF. There are other threads where you can discuss other parties (and indeed other party leaders)
monies through the IFSC are regulated and comply with whatever sanctions regime there is
You'll also find that Ireland has always been doing business wherever it can make money/jobs but compliant with any sanctions anywhere
We have diplomatic relations with practically every country in the world despotic or not and so it should be
Sinn Féin is not a country
What a load of absolute drivel, what have we made up? Please specify.
You and other posters have been ranting on and on about Sinn Féin not condemning Russia, what is the great need to condemn Russia? What has Russia done that is so bad in comparison with other big nations like Saudi Arabia? Russia are very well behaved in comparison to most countries of similar size and strength.
Why do you want Russia condemned so badly in contrast with Saudi Arabia and the United States, France etc?
Why are you not pushing for Leo to condemn the Saudis when he was over there recently shaking hands and having a great laugh?
This is typical SF cognitive dissonance. Completely throwing out a red herring to deflect from SF.
Looking at Leo Varadkar:
How much money for arms is Leo getting from the Saudi's for Arms again??
Did he ever train FARC rebels in Colombia ?
The truth is by virtue of the fact of LV being himself and living his life, Gay Saudi's, have been drawn to Ireland
Unlike SF - Leo can be a professional politician unaffected by personal ideology. For the good of Ireland as a nation. He is not merely a flag waving idealist- like many in SF. Do you think LV would be wise to cause a diplomatic incident and effect Irish Trade and the nation as a consequence? Nevermind in normal times, in COVID times?
Personally, I think it would be stupid for LV it would not be politically wise at all.
As you probably already realise yourself?
In world politics even those who do not fire the bullets they sometimes have to deal with people they would not want to normally. And have to be diplomatic. It is called politics and statesmanship.
Not a bullet fired. How things should be.
You two posters are doing a very good job so far at making stuff up. The SF social media team must be great gas to to go for pint with?
Every post counts in 'the struggle' does it?
Have the two of youse even looked at the the parties that Sinn Fein align themselves with in the EU?
Look up Chris McManus SF in the above link.
The group comprises political parties of socialist and communist orientation.
No condemnation from leo when he was over shaking hands with the Saudis when they have killed thousands and thousands of innocent Yemeni civilians and they have committed countless war crimes and are also largely responsible for the worst humanitarian situation in the world, yet they are calling on Sinn Féin to condemn Russia for having too many troops around the Ukrainian border?
You couldn't make this stuff up.
This made me laugh. I doubt you believe the post yourself. It is like a throwaway comedian's line for laughs and giggles. Major holes in it on even cursory analysis.
I was looking up when SF gave up on absentionism in the Dail in 86.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/from-the-archive-blog/2020/feb/09/sinn-fein-votes-to-abandon-abstentionism-1986
From the article above:
Giving one of the most assured performances of his political career, Mr Adams said in his presidential address that generations of Republicans had made the mistake of leaving politics to those outside the movement: ‘The only feasible way to break out from our isolation, to make political gains and win support for our policies is by approaching people at the level they understood.'
--
The 'approaching people at a level they understand' reads like Adams taking down to voters and taking them as fools. The level they understand (in 2022) is populist promises on housing and health. Purely in the hope of the ultimate of goal of a 32 county Ireland by the back door.
But the reality is SF only want all or nothing housing. Viewed again recently as a SF Councillor vowed to block Conor McGregor's plans to build appartements - build to rent.
https://extra.ie/2022/01/01/sport/sport-extra/sinn-fein-plan-to-take-on-conor-mcgregors-latest-business-plan
Maybe you like Adams think the voting public believe the kind of posts such as yours - that many new SF voters are gullible?
But people more clued in will just laugh at the likes of it. And the IMO the new voters won't like been fooled if SF do get into power. So SF will have to be very careful. The ROI voter is not like the NI voter. They are not as concerned about a border poll etc as SF are. It is delicate balancing act SF are on on all sides. Not as dazzled as the flag waving more interested in daily living and life.
Both FF and FG are big pals of putin and his ilk, btw wasn't leo in Saudi recently shaking hands and not a word of condemnation from him. Another despot regime, but hey SF are the bad guys. Deflection from them at best, solve the domestic problems which is their job.
You can probably judge this case by the explanations from Russia that don't make any sense in any reality, it's the type of explanation that those who fall for spam emails also fall for (i.e. deliberately awful to weed out those capable of critical thought).
This post is the epitome of the Russia is never criticised for anything shinner philosophy
We will see what happens in the privacy of the ballot box
I'm only applying (as is MM) a little of the show me your company and I'll tell you what you are approach
I'd certainly agree that Russia is not anywhere pivotal in the minds of voters
In fact if there's an SFF government next time,it won't be in it either
SF will just do the centrist thing,nettle stings and all and react like all other western government parties acting in concert against Russia when they misbehave
The salford poisoning was officially declared by Russia to be a fabrication and a "grotesque provocation rudely staged by the British and U.S. intelligence agencies" to undermine Russia.
British media will tell you the Russians did it and that's good enough for some people, not good enough for me when you take into account all the lies and misinformation they've told in the past, why are Irish people so quick to believe any negative stories about Russia? What makes Britain more believable than Russia when we of all people should know that the British intelligence services are not to be trusted.
In a country here with ever decreasing readership and listenership of mainstream media, do you really believe the young voters have any real interest in Salford poisoning and hostilities on the Ukrainian Russian border?
As has been pointed out here to you today on a number of occasions and was also pointed out significantly to the political parties after the last election through exit polls, housing, health and employment are the main concerns of the Irish electorate.
No it's not
They also opposed the trans EU and semi world wide diplomatic slap against Russia after the Salford poisoning
Tacit support/lack of criticism
They abstained (SF MEPs). This is their reasoning.
''A spokesman for Sinn Féin MEP Martina Anderson confirmed she and her three party colleagues Lynn Boylan, Matt Carthy and Liadh Ní Riada abstained in the vote.
The spokesman said Sinn Féin recognised and condemned Russia’s human rights abuses but it believed the conflict in Ukraine stemmed from “a zero-sum political game between Russia and the West” that forced Ukraine into choosing to ally itself with one or the other.
“While the report acknowledges the corrosive part played by Russia in the region it completely ignores any responsibility of the EU’s for its role in the development of this conflict. It is simply an unbalanced report,” the spokesman added.''
It is entirely normal for a country that is supposed to be neutral to abstain from these votes.
You are basing this theory on magic and fantasy though. You are speaking on your theory like its fact and then surmising how it could pan out. Its a house of cards built on a theory you can't or won't support.
Our government has a ceann comhairle who's lobbying on behalf of China, won't support Taiwan and allows putin launder his money.
All you have is SF alledgedly not doing A so you claim they are B. A Rabbit from MM's arse.
Is it a case of throwing out anything in a desperate effort not to do anything to address poor government policy, the real reason SF are doing so well?
You're anti America now?
Better disband Cáirde SF over there so and hand back the money
Now can you explain the no criticism of the Russian Empire,its take over of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine ?
How does that sit with SF's view on Britain's role in Ireland?
Or to paraphrase Orwell's pig farm are some outrages more equal than others ?
Taoiseach Micheál Martin has claimed Sinn Féin “will never criticise Russia” and has attacked its “notable silence” over the Putin regime’s build-up of military forces on the Ukrainian border.
It's amazing really in the last 20 years the United States have been slaughtering civilians, starting wars that have caused the deaths of millions and illegally interfering in countless amounts of countries with their bombing campaigns and yet Sinn Féin are getting a bashing for not verbally abusing Vladimir Putin.
Basically.. SF hypocrisy
Its a port end for their down fall ,because all these former USSR coat tails will fall off quickly if they go into a centre government facing wrath from the disappointed always complaining set
They'll be a normal party then
Do people really give a fiddlers about Russia/Ukraine. I'd say most are concerned with Covid, House Prices,Rent Prices, Energy Prices, Keeping their job and providing for their family, Health, etc.
Maybe MM should concentrate on these issues rather than red Herrings, you know do his actual job,
Jeez… how low can this level of discourse go.
I'd imagine SF are more pro China than this government
Really?
The ceann comhairle has been accused of overstepping the remit of his office by passing representations on behalf of the Chinese government to colleagues.
Documents obtained under freedom of information law by The Sunday Times show Seán Ó Fearghaíl has contacted the Department of Foreign Affairs, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and various TDs about Ireland’s position on Taiwan after several meetings with Chinese diplomats since 2017.
Oh deary me....
So SF being pro Russian is your own theory. Your comment with follow on questions was an opinion. Fair enough.
Why does the Irish government allow Putin launder his money here? I mean if you want to be genuinely concerned.
I think the scaremongering bag of tricks must be near empty.
Here's one: in a country that enjoys the support of a Coca-Cola bottling plant why would MLMD drink Pepsi?
The USA is a democracy with an agreeable amount of human rights
I dont think this government feign over Israel in the same way SF do with Cuba which isn't a democracy at all
Now back to my question, why Russia ? Its invaded neighbouring crimea and half of Eastern Ukraine by proxy ,holding a gun to the rest of it
How does supporting that by voting against sanctions and being quiet on what's going on sit with SF's view of Britain's actions in Ireland?
Oh FFS, is the Red Scare 2.0 coming to Ireland now as well? It's been an absolutely f*cking pathetic political tactic in the United States since 2016, used by pro-establishment actors to deflect blame for their own policy failings and subsequent electoral failings. What's next - "Sinn Fein is surging in popularity because Russia 'hacked' our elections by posting memes on social media"?
This is a classic example of the Irish establishment once again refusing to engage with the policy issues driving the surge towards SF and youth disaffection. It is absolutely, mind numbingly pathetic on every level.
So many attacks on SF by both of the current governing parties (I'm leaving out the Greens here since they're so very quiet on pretty much everything these days) and yet not once have I heard any of them address why the public are pissed - AKA, the cost of living and the perceived injustice in the distribution thereof.
Martin and Varadkar, instead of asking questions of SF that your average angry voter finds utterly, incomprehensibly irrelevant to their day to day lives, why don't you tell us why the ever-spiralling cost of living relative to take-home pay for middle and lower income individuals and families, which you have repeatedly touted as "recovery" in economic terms, is something voters should be happy about and thank you for rather than telling you to go f*ck yourselves at the earliest opportunity?
This is the only, and I really do mean only, relevant issue for SF's newfound voter base. They don't give a flying bollocks about anything else, and it genuinely astounds me that after three full years of plummeting popularity, the current ruling parties still haven't apparently figured this out.
I actually have somewhat more respect for FG in this regard. Through statements from the liked of Eoghan Murphy and Leo on rentier capitalism ("one man's rent is another man's income", etc) they have honestly admitted that they serve one class of voters at the expense of others. That respect diminishes when they lash out after bruising elections and opinion polls, but at least there's some level of self-awareness going on. FF though? I honestly don't get it. They may at one time have considered themselves the party of ordinary people, and maybe on occasion prior to the 1990s this was true to some extent in terms of public funding for public services and infrastructure (marred obviously by scandal, corruption and outright thievery of public money), but they are in lockstep with FG on neoliberalism as the only viable economic model. FG at least own that. FF are a conundrum.
Are they? Can you link some statements or such? Currently Ireland allows Putin and Russian oil affiliates use the country to legally launder money.
And govt parties pro Saudi, Israel and China.
Not normal parties.
Why are they so pro USA and France etc? What exactly do you want Sinn Féin to do about it?
Why is Sinn Féin so pro Russia
They invaded crimea, yet SF mep's voted against sanctions
They're silent on the threat to Ukraine and sent representatives to the inauguration of the Venezuela president who cheated the electorate there and has his people in abject poverty
The crimea Ukraine pro Russian empire thing is the height of hypocrisy
Not a normal party
Absolutely not. If a peaceful march, demonstration or protest is officially banned for political reasons, such a ban should be ignored. If that ban is then enforced with violence by state actors, which subsequently goes unpunished, that state is no longer legitimate and anybody wearing its uniform is, like it or not, an agent of a rogue state and a legitimate target in the (justified) violent uprising that follows.
Prohibiting peaceful protest and enforcing that prohibition with violent force is simply unacceptable, and if it happens, it is entirely justified for t he protesters to respond in kind with violence of their own. That is the only way in which tyrants can be prevented from taking and maintaining power.
Or, to take a rather famous film quote, “people should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people”.
To those who suggest that the RUC was not an arm of an oppressive state, have any of you seen the incredibly famous video from the NICRA march in which a protester demands that the police cease their attacks, finishing by saying “God save us” and being immediately decked with a baton? That, to me, is the moment at which anyone with a shred of human decency should have resigned from the RUC in disgust on the insistence that those responsible be prosecuted for assault. And anyone who failed to do so chose to wear the uniform of that, from that moment onwards, had declared itself a rogue paramilitary power in support of an illegitimate government.
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