This question goes out those who took the 2 jabs? Will you you take it to get back to normality? Or are you sick of the government moving the goalposts constantly?
But it's a double-blind randomised trial, so why would you expect the exposure to be significantly different?
I'm no statistician, but I suspect the wide confidence intervals are purely a consequence of small numbers of symptomatic cases.
The real (and unavoidable) limitation of the trials was the short duration before approval was applied for, but it's a pandemic so understandable that the vaccines were approved as soon as they were shown to be safe and effective in the short term.
Relatedly I've been thinking about starting a thread on "things I believed which proved to be false" but I'm not sure it would go well. :-)
Yeah, that was unfortunate (was it Micheál Martin and Luke O'Neill?). But for me it the jabbering from politicians and commentators makes no difference to the underlying truths which I seek to inform my behaviour and decisions.
I got a booster because I wanted maximum protection, not because Micheál Martin told me to.
The double blind part just means neither the subjects nor the people doing the vaccinations knew which was the real deal or not, so that wouldn't have an effect on the numbers in that sense. The vaccines certainly showed a positive response and one which has been borne out in real world terms as far as deaths among the vulnerable groups go(who would show the biggest effect), but in that study in particular the numbers themselves were tiny and we have no breakdown of positives versus negatives to show exposure. Given over 30% of positives are asymptomatic without vaccines it's a knotty enough problem. It's another reason why I waited a few months before getting vaccinated(and I'd already had covid so had much more breathing room to do so. If I'd been 65 or over I'd have jumped at them) until the harder stats were in and the percipitous drop in elderly people ending up in hospital showed those real world numbers.
Yeah, but the thing that gets said often (not by you, but by some very cock-sure individuals on this forum) is that NOBODY EVER said the injections would stop you getting covid or passing it on. Which is a demonstrably false, gaslight-y statement.
The double blind part just means neither the subjects nor the people doing the vaccinations knew which was the real deal or not, so that wouldn't have an effect on the numbers in that sense
I quibble a bit with "just". It's critical to understanding why clinical trial outcomes may not be matched in the real world.
The randomised bit means that the participants are randomly distributed across vaxxed/unvaxxed cohorts, which ought to ensure no exposure bias from things like age (if you put all the old people in one group you would expect their exposure to be lower due to risk aversion). I guess smaller trials use matching to ensure fair distribution of certain attributes.
The double blind bit is also critical to exposure because people who know they have received a vaccine would be expected to be less risk-averse
The reality of vaccinations as I see it is that regardless of who said what, they have rightly allowed us to feel safer, and that promotes unsafe behaviour due to risk compensation. This is why the unvaxxed have some justification in blaming the vaxxed for putting them at risk.
The thing to remember is that its important to look at what the actual science says. Most journalists have very little knowledge of the area's they report in. That goes for lots of things not just vaccines ie all science subjects, economic, law etc. Also when communicating a message you have to simplify things. A perfect example of that is our education system.
The other thing is you its exceptionally rare to find a scientist that will give definite statements like "will not" especially in an area of ongoing study like Covid 19. So if you heard that it's safe to say at best the person claiming that was simplifying things.
The reason people would be pro vaccine is because if you get a vaccine and booster you are going to ease the pressure on the health service. The thing to remember is we don't need a large percentage of the population to require hospital treatment at the same time before the system is overwhelmed.
Also remember the vast vast majority of people even in the older age groups don't require hospital treatment as a result of Covid. High risk is a relative term. I think in Feb 20(before wide spread vaccination) only 1 in 5 of over 65s who had a confirmed case needed hospital treatment. Or put it another way 80% didn't and that's ignoring asymptomatic people so the actual % of over 65s requiring hospital treatment was even lower.
However even if .1% (5,000)of the country require hospital treatment at the same time the health service is put under massive pressure. The purpose of vaccines is to limit the number of people who require hospital treatment to manageable levels. Vaccines work on a societal level if enough people get infected it will inevitably increase hospitalisations. Vaccines and associated boosters enable us to reach a form of herd immunity in a safe manner (ie no large influx of patients into hospital at the same time)
Having to take boosters is not unusual. We have it with the flu every year and a new flu vaccine at that. I don't see any widespread conspiracy theory associated with the flu vaccine even though its new (to adapt for the particular strain)every year.
If there is a comparatively low uptake for the booster (compared to the first two) among the under 40s what will happen to the domestic covid pass?
Anthony Fauci, Joe Biden and CDC director Rochelle Walensky, to name a few, have all said at one time or another that you "will not" get covid if you're double vaccinated.
And while, sure, simplifying things for explanation's sakes is a thing, outright lying in order to get someone to do something you want them to do is a bit different from that.
My point was and remains that "nobody has ever said" mRNA injections is just not true.
I'm not sure how this has anything whatsoever to do with the post you quoted?
Links?
There's plenty of video compilations floating about that are not difficult to find. You'll trust sources you find yourself more than any posted by someone else.
You said it is “demonstrably false”, so demonstrate it.
Links please.
I found this for Biden and this for Walensky. Are they what you are referring to? Can you link to a Fauci one?
A slip by Joe Biden and a report on a clip taken out of context, surely not.
I just had a quick look at that poster's post history and I am guessing that yes, this is another attempt to spread misinformation.
You were referring to people on this forum being pro vaccine and from my point of view being critical of that. I was explaining why people would be pro vaccine and pro booster.
I wasn't referring to people being pro-vaccine. I was referring to people who said that "nobody has ever" said that mRNA injections stop people getting infected and passing on SARS-CoV-2.
I understand why people are pro-mRNA injections and more power to them.
And so far you haven’t demonstrated what you said is “demonstrably false”.
Presented with evidence that Joe Biden did indeed say that "you're not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations", which demonstrates that the assertion that "nobody ever said" that they prevent transmission/infection is false, you called it "a slip" and breezed right on by, squawking about me not demonstrating the thing you had just dismissed demonstration of.
There is no evidence I could present that would satisfy you and I'm not particularly invested in your personal beliefs either way, so I'm not going to engage any further.
Happy New Year.
You are aware that by not responding, you are acknowledging that you're spreading misinformation right?
Are you claiming that the President of the US thinks Covid vaccines gives immunity from infection? I put it to you that at a town hall he had a momentary lapse, something which has happened a few times since his election. That most certainly is not to say he is telling us what you claim.
There is evidence you can present, follow through on your claim that Fauci said you cannot get Covid if you are vaccinated.
I'm aware that you think that, and I'm comfortable with it.
You already posted proof of Biden saying "you're not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations" and of Walensky saying "our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data."
This meets the criteria of demonstrating that "nobody has ever said that vaccines prevent transmission" is untrue, which was my claim.
Anyone desperate to see other examples of people claiming the vaccines prevent transmission can do the legwork themselves. There are plenty out there.
The poster linked to a town hall event where Biden misspoke, and an article showing how media reports were taken out of context when considering the message in its entirety, the CDC said she was “speaking broadly” and more research was needed.
Yet no Fauci link.
So you went to the effort of adding more links to the two people I had already linked to, but didn't link to the person I couldn't find a link to? Why is that exactly?
Did you spread misinformation or not? Where is this link to what Fauci said?
It doesn't just seem to the case that I think that, it seems to be objectively the case that you're doing that.
Did you make a general comment as to the effectiveness of a booster based on this one person?
I was just explaining the effect it had on 'this one person' so if the effect that she had happened to her then it's quite possible it will happen to a few others. The effectiveness the booster vaccine had on this one person was a very bad exerience to say the least. I didn't think it was a problem to explain a persons experience of the booster vaccine. There is no malevolence in my previous comment or any of my comments but yet, my comment was Deleted. I think its time to pack up this boards.ie trash-can. Reddit it is.
Did you receive a message from a mod explaining why it was deleted?
No. No message at all, zero.
I'm not certain that Fauci explicitly said that vaccines prevent transmission. I know he said that vaccines make people a "dead end" for the virus, but I believe that he said it in the context of being very hopeful that they prevent transmission, which isn't the same thing. He also said that "there will always be breakthrough infections but that's a very rare event", which as we know is not true, but was probably in accordance with the data at the time. Fauci was also in my head after reading some of his earlier masking advice, but that's another issue. So I'll retract that and just stick with the two you demonstrated yourself (for starters—again, plenty of other examples out there for anyone who cares to do some internet archaeology).
In any case, the specific people saying that vaccines prevent infection is largely irrelevant to my original point—that it is misinformation to say "No one has ever claimed it gave immunity from infection." That has been sufficiently demonstrated with examples from the President of the United States and the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
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