As Lumen already pointed out to you, Sweden and nursing homes is not the rock you want to find yourself on making a last attempt to defend Sweden`s acquired herd immunity strategy. We may not be a shining example on how we dealt with nursing homes initially, but at least we learned from it. In October 2020 while Tegnell was in denial of another wave he was recommending the relaxing of nursing home restrictions and was telling the aged and vulnerable it was safe to again mingle with the general population.
I can see the rest of the Nordic countries looking at the deaths in Sweden and saying to themselves "If we had only followed their strategy our deaths would be so much lower".
The irony Fintan is you do not seem to understand the meaning of Stockholm Syndrome. Sweden was taken hostage by Giesecke and his "boys" with a strategy that has been shown to be a failure on every verifiable metric. Thankfully for Sweden their local authorities as soon as they were able to put a stop to the insanity forced their government to sideline Tegnell and the rest of the "boys" in October 2020.
Nursing homes is not the place you want to go to defend Sweden's COVID policy.
Not even that. He actually think our "strategy" was better.
You know that one where we shipped every old and vulnerable hospital patient to a nursing houses where quality of service and care is incomparable to the one they had at hospitals, basically to die there.
You, as usual have no idea what you’re talking about.
the conversation over covid and deaths has already happened, your side lost the argument because it could not deliver what was needed and would have caused preventable deaths for nothing.
sweden's strategy was a complete failure by all metrics.
Why aren’t the Swedes out on the streets protesting about it? It’s because they don’t give a fcuk about Covid like the rest of us. They are simply living their lives while we collectively lose our minds.
That's a very valid point.
Those who have catastrophised Covid for almost 2 years now, actually think that the Swedes regret not having a lockdown!
It's like a weird form of ironically named Stockholm syndrome.
Restrictions are the ultimate example of sunk cost fallacies and doing something to be seen to be doing something.
As if our elected one's were any better... LEO sorry, meant LOL
Actually now that I think about the king of Sweden thing maybe we shouldn’t be surprised that people here put so much stock in what he says considering our obsession with the deification of unelected mouthpieces in this country.
The king of Sweden. Lol. A man widely regarded by Swedes as a bit of a harmless bumbling eejit is being held up by our Covid obsessives as some kind of Oracle! If the Swedes are being used in some kind of “ immoral experiment” then where is the backlash to it? Why aren’t the Swedes out on the streets protesting about it? It’s because they don’t give a fcuk about Covid like the rest of us. They are simply living their lives while we collectively lose our minds.
The old "look over there" has fallen very flat for some time now when it comes to attempting to distract from Sweden and their neighbours.on excess deaths. Same as it has with our deaths when it comes to those of our neighbour who used the same strategy as Sweden initially. It`s the big elephant that has been sitting in the corner of the room for a year now that some are still determined to ignore where restrictions were concerned.
Move on folks. Sweden has, and are now reintroducing restrictions and relying on vaccines and boosters like everywhere else, rather than a naturally acquired herd immunity experiment that unfortunately for their population cost needless lives lost.
Lol. Enjoy.🤙
If you never understood Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden publicly declaring it a mistake following the strategy, try looking on it as Elisabeth II of the U.K. doing the same for context.
Sweden for 2020 did not have average deaths. They had excess deaths over 10% greater than 2019.
If there is one thing we can thank Sweden for it`s showing us the insanity of people who should have know better using their population in an immoral experiment that cost lives.
Thankfully their regional health authorities as soon as they got back the power to make their own decisions, forced the government to sideline those that really should have known better, yet who were still determined to continue with opening up while being in denial that Sweden was in the midst of another wave when all metrics showed the strategy had been a failure.
Love the Sherry 😋
Seems you may have hit the Christmas day sherry a bit early bren. If you have, enjoy, but I do not have even the vaguest idea what you are saying.
The king of Sweden publicly declared it a mistake following the strategy.
I often see the pro-restriction posters reference the king of Sweden in the argument as if he has any significance whatsoever. Never understood it.
The Swedes had an average death rate and practically no restrictions.
The over emotional ranting about consoling the relatives of the dead is an incredibly immature route to try to sway an argument.
Thankfully many are seeing past that now, a former NHS consultant put it best, when are we going to have a grown up conversation about deaths and Covid?
Paris, Rio, Madrid, Buenos Aires - There’s no correlation between a lockdown and the number of cases, deaths etc. They’re self fulfilling prophecies that have no way of being verified.
Lol. Is the asking if Sweden an epidemiologist?
Calamari I have no need to attempt to fool anyone. The figures for Swedish deaths when compared to their neighbours, as do comparing our deaths to those of neighbour, prove the point that the initial strategy of both Sweden and the U.K. on restrictions caused needless deaths. If you and some others wish to ignore that, then you and they are fooling nobody other than yourselves.
At least the U.K recognised the folly and changed course, but not before following a strategy has left them with twice our deaths. Sweden has many multiples more deaths compared to their neighbours and only changed their strategy in October 2020 when the local authorities put a stop to the insanity while Tegnell and crew were in denial of Sweden being in the midst of another wave, planning to increase the numbers at public events, opening up nursing homes to visitors and telling the elderly and vulnerable it was safe to mingle in general society.
The king of Sweden publicly declared it a mistake following the strategy. Even Tegnell, one of the main architects, was eventually forced to admit it was immoral. That some here are still attempting to defend it is beyond bizarre.
If you imagine if you followed Sweden's example in high population density countries with major cities, you would get the same results as a low density country buttressed by other low density countries who enforced heavy restrictions... that's cloud cuckoo territory. Sweden took a free ride on their neighbours, had multiple times their deaths and their approach simply doesn't scale. More people live in the Paris metro area than in all of Sweden.
Not being treated as a plaything must be great consolation to the dead Swedes (and their bereaved families) who would still be alive if they were Finns, Norwegians or Danes. The only question is what multiple of deaths their strategy brought, is it triple? Five times? More?
Easy to rant about wet dreams when you don't care how manyb dead people your strategy entails.
oh the neighbours thing again - ad nauseam
Charlie with all respect yes there may be countries closer to Sweden that had fewer deaths with harsher restrictions. So I get it from your point of view Sweden could have done better and they didnt so they're bastards.
But that does not invalidate the point being made. Its just your silly little get out deflection trick so that you dont have to engage with the argument being made. You're fooling no one.
Sweden is doing a LOT better than countless countries where their governments live out their little totalitarian wet dream. And they treated their citizens and 'the science' respectfully and not as their playthings.
I can post you a link to that study if you wish. It`s not that difficult to understand.
You are correct that there is no correlation between the severity of lockdown and the following results if you are comparing countries on a scattergun basis that have little or nothing in common. Where Sweden is concerned that is not the case. We can compare Sweden with it`s neighbours on that basis and see the results that followed. Same as we can with Ireland and our neighbour the U.K.
What lockdowns and vaccines are supposed to sybolise or what they are supposedly being used to build, I have no idea. It sound like a discussion for the conspiracy thread which is that way ➡️➡️
I never held out a lot of hope there would be, and even less so now when we see the speed at which this virus can mutate. Hopefully this variant is an indicator of where this virus is going. Even if it is much more transmissable it does appear to cause less serious health problems. With a bit of luck it will become like flu where an annual shot of vaccine will be sufficient. Especially when the present vaccines were not even designed to combat delta, but were still doing well against it and the boosters seem to be doing well against omicron. Happy Christmas to yourself and everyone.
Remember at the start people spoke of the fact that there was no cure for the common cold, (many are coronavirus). Maybe there just isn't a reliable cure that will cover all variants. Anyway..... Happy Christmas all.
We could all throw peer-reviewed studies that we don’t really understand at each other, and they would all miss the mark because none of us on here are qualified to understand them. We could all find an epidemiologist to support our point of view but the reality is that there no correlation between the severity of a lockdown and the following result. Sweden, Spain, Ireland, Brazil, Peru or Argentina etc
Lockdowns or vaccines are not the point.The point is what they symbolise - and what they are being used to build.
It looks like they have totally reverted to their previous restrictions.
Sweden, like some posters on these threads we confident that being infected by COVID would result in immunity from future infections. From a recently posted report on BioRxiv, although not yet peer reviewed, strongly suggests otherwise. The mRNA vaccines give a 35%-45% range of protection from infection by this omicron variant, previous infections give little to none.
Makes me wonder if, in what for Sweden as far as restrictions are concerned is a pretty dramatic u turn, that has anything to do with it.
Unreal isn't it, and people think they fucked up.I'm pretty sure there is plenty of countries who would of swapped places with them in a flash if they could.
They currently have fewer deaths per capita than all of, in the EU alone:
Hungary, Czechia, Romania, Croatia, Slovakia
Slovenia, Belgium, Poland, Latvia, Italy
Spain, Portugal, Greece, France, Austria
#16th out of #27 in the EU, while having had the lightest restrictions in the block, would seem to be doing rather well to me. Completely middle of the pack corona-wise, but far less economic, mental and social damage anywhere else is a rather good outcome combination.
All in all, Sweden fucked up.
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