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The Omicron variant

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    A virus never moves in a linear fashion. If we just concentrate on cases it isnt at all like the classic one grain doubling per section on a chessboard. And neither can we say that the peak is influenced by x amount due to restrictions. Mitigation, yes, percentage unknown. Even in unvaccinated unrestricted countries a virus will reach a peak. There might be a doubling in cases at some point but it does not continue.

    All i am really saying is that any equation w multiple variables is dubious. It is true for the CO2 debate as well as for Covid. Thats why projections and models need to be adjusted constantly. I hope they will at some point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Tom_Crean




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,019 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    I'd imagine its because like the UK, we are on average older, fatter and probably have lower vitamin D levels than the South Africans who are in mid summer now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 140 ✭✭moritz1234




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Exactly, when people say mild, I think they assume a runny nose for two days or something. I need to be in and out of Ireland in a seven day window and attend a bachelor party and not infect my parents in their seventies. Everyone is telling me "ah sure it'll be mild anyway". That could mean delayed flights and work, 2 weeks in bed and an entire extended family's plans messed up. Mild could be the sickest I've ever been in my life, I've never had a cold for longer than 3 days before.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Tom_Crean


    I haven't a clue.

    Everyone from the WHO down have made erroneous statements in this pandemic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    Scientists were still speculating if Delta was more severe than Alpha 2 months after it was discovered, There was some early speculation that it could be milder. It took several studies and a collation of data before they could speak with a degree of certainty on its severity.

    Science takes time. We are learning more everyday, but it might be as late as January before anything conclusive comes out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Jog501


    Just to take a broader view on the whole situation, it seems that at a very high level there has been a steady but consistent reduction in the deaths to cases ratio. Particularly evident in the last few 3 or 4 weeks. Overall, after each global wave the death ratio has fallen each time, vaccines, natural immunity and treatments all playing their part to slowly move us on from the pandemic era to endemic era. Hopefully Omicron speeds this up further.

    image.png




  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Actually we don't know where it originated, but where it was first noticed. Could have originated in the UK, travelled to South Africa, and was noticed there first. South Africa, and all of sub Saharan Africa, fares pretty well from covid given how young the population is, they also probably have some natural immunity even if vaccination levels are low. In fact without the booster we don't seem to have much protection in the North at all. And it is winter here so the spread might be even worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,532 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Sure, I've read all the same stuff you have. I'm hoping it's effects will be far milder in our highly vaccinated population.

    But the scientists are not drawing strong conclusions yet, so I'm holding fire also.

    It's just really unfortunate timing that actual data on hospitalisations from roughly comparable populations won't be available until the pre-Christmas fun season has been abundance-of-cautioned into the weeds.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Tom_Crean


    Just the South African thing. Summer 2020 had little covid here. No deaths. Once October comes hospitalisations and deaths climb. Ok variables like lockdown levels. But regardless of people being freshly vaccinated, hospitalisations and deaths rose in October. Winter season worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,339 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    You also have to remember here that cases are only detected test confirmed cases so the actual number of cases is higher while the deaths included from/with covid figure is accurate the cases number essentially amounts to a guess, as vaccinations lessen the need for tests and asymptomatic cases due to immunity grow the number of actual cases should be higher and creating more and more of a gap over time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Jog501


    Totally agree, if anything the data is hiding an even greater reduction in CFR at this stage. Seems to be heading a in a pretty predictable trajectory in comparison to other pandemics now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭RavenBea17b


    Apart from the real potential to overwhelm hospitals, - in multiple ways -medical staff having to isolate themselves etc, my concern is for people who are already suffering from the impact from previous bouts of Covid - long Covid patients.

    Many are impacted with kidney issues, reduced lung function etc. This is something that I haven't seen too much data about yet, but Omicron is still in it's early stages of data capture - regarding impact, both health and system wise.. I read that the UK has sequenced over 24% of ALL samples on the GISAID database and an average 13% in the past month cases have been sequenced.



  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well if someone can find that I would be interested but I can't see what would stop a virus from spreading and increasing exponentially in an immunologically naive population except changes in behaviour, or herd immunity caused by vaccines or natural immunity. In the original breakout in 2020 projections were to hit herd immunity without lockdowns by April or May. That was considered unacceptable in most countries, although the UK toyed with the idea, because the hospitals would be overwhelmed. That would have meant maybe 50-70% of the UK population getting it back then given a presumed R value of 2-3. So there would have been up to a million cases per day at peak given it would mean 30M to 45M in total infected.

    Even the common or garden flu with an R value of 2 or so, up to 40M people get it every year (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html) in the US, which must mean 1 million people at peak. The whole thing only lasts a few months.

    Its possible the formula you are looking for is r-1/r which is the herd immunity needed to stop viral transmission. With an r value of 2 50% of people will have to get the virus to ensure herd immunity. With an estimated omicron r value of 5 you would need 80% of people to have herd immunity.

    Contrary to that there are the boosters, masks, and restrictions which will no doubt stop it reaching everybody it could.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭TefalBrain


    Long covid is unfortunately being pushed under the carpet at the minute. I know of at least 4 people suffering from it at present. 2 are unable to return to work in any capacity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Moreover, people seem to have forgotten that most deaths occured due to auto immune disease, ie the immune system releasing cytokine storm and inflammation to get rid of the virus causing massive tissue damage. Not the virus itself. This time that main factor does not seem to be happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,402 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    From what I know the main issue is fatigue. The feeling of being tired, not able or wanting to do anything.

    Been there before. It's a strange kind of feeling. You don't really know why, you don't feel particularly sick, just tired. It can be quite debilitating for a while. You wouldn't want it stretched out over weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If two thirds of nearly all the population become symptomatic over the next 2 months it would be absolute carnage and not just for the health service.

    Hopefully that scenario doesn't happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Hi Lumen. Maybe you could highlight 😊 the actual number of Covid patients in hospital. You can find that on that website by clicking ALL healthcare data just below the hospitalisation graph.

    Pretty flat so far

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=overview%26areaName=United%20Kingdom#card-patients_in_hospital



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭RavenBea17b


    Botswanna noticed a spike of unexplained cases, asked SA to help in the sequencing and so creating a test for the new variant. That is the location events known so far.

    Top 3 nationalities visiting Botswana for holidays (2014) tourism are 1, SA, 2, USA and 3 Germany.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭RavenBea17b


    The virus was the trigger to the release of cytokine and inflammation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,648 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Thankfully doesn’t seem to common. At this stage i know a huge amount of people who have had Covid and all made full recoveries including a 90 year old uncle of mine. No long Covid. I know more people who have been diagnosed with cancer and heart problems since the start of the pandemic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭McGiver


    RSA data isn't valid for ROI or EU.

    They've been highly exposed to Beta on a population level. Critical difference. They feel confident to let Omicron flow freely...

    We'll see how it plays out here. EU hasn't been exposed to Beta on population level at all...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    To be fair, London is just that little bit ahead of the rest of the UK. The number of people in hospital in London has increased by 50% in two weeks. The number of daily admissions doubled in the same timeframe.

    This is however, on the back of an infection rate which has apparently quadrupled in the same time frame, and a population that's 30% unvaccinated.

    It's important not fall into absolutes here. Even if you accept the data that Omicron is milder, people will end up in hospital with it. Some people are killed by the common cold. So the presentation of data showing an increase in hospitalisations should not be interpreted as doom-mongering.

    Going by London data, there may be a considerable lag time between infections increasing and hospital numbers increasing. 14 days or more. Which means any declarations have to be withheld, but in itself also suggests a milder infection; a more serious infection would show in the data much faster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭RavenBea17b


    there are 15 studies in the UK alone, some looking children and teens. Denmark is also looking at Long Covid impact. Apart from extreme tiredness, kidney performance is being monitored.



  • Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You’ve just listed two more, now we have young, old, at risk, not at risk, if you include young at risk and old not at risk, we have more.

    Categorising risk based on age alone, is pretty un-informed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Tom_Crean




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,145 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    I and many others i know have been feeling like that for the last 2 years, its pure miserable living in constant gloom. Of course many will feel fucked and long covid is an easy blame.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 203 ✭✭Tom_Crean




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