This question goes out those who took the 2 jabs? Will you you take it to get back to normality? Or are you sick of the government moving the goalposts constantly?
The article (which is unknown if it's true or not) came from an anti-vax source in Israel and has yet to have any confirmation (having read it, it's a bit all over the place and written as an opinion piece which things the people reading it would like to be true rather than anything factual). It would be a good conversation piece over on the CT forum but can understand why it was removed from here. It is pretty much the definition of JAQ'ing.
listen to the scientists or we might as well pack up as a species and fade into extinction.
Ironically, without the scientists, this virus would greatly strengthen us as a species. Nature's merciless way of removing the weak and vulnerable from the gene pool, as it has done many times over the centuries.
Causation/correlation and all that. Because of this pox we've had long periods of lockdowns, people isolated at home, people eating more(pandemic weight), people being more stressed mentally and emotionally, activities like gyms and the like shut down for long periods of time. Just that lot alone could easily cause an uptick in hear disease and diabetes being observed. Hell many of them could even be untested asymptomatic covid sufferers. Covid from early on was seen to cause cardiovascular problems. There are too many variables to pin it on vaccines at the moment.
I think some vaccinated people want the anti-vax folks forcibly vaccinated so they can assure themselves they made the right decision. A kind of groupthink at play. People sometimes overreact to people that swim against the current.
I got vaccinated and I am pretty certain it was the right decision - I probably wont know for years. In the meantime I will trust in our public health officials and take any boosters offered. But I will vehemently oppose mandatory vaccination.
This video featuring head of Israeli Management Team of Epidemics is quite revealing
https://twitter.com/efenigson/status/1461710181369270276?t=jAFEz1XpPHOrcqYowrUlTw&s=19
They have shot up high above the five-year average since the summer. That is not a gradual annual rise, it is a huge jump in 5-6 months.
Something is causing large numbers of extra people to drop dead now.
Think about this, if we are obsessed about 'saving lives' and making it the absolute ruling principle of our society, why does a huge increase in non-covid deaths which are filling up mortuaries elicit no curiousity?
Re: the last line, a lot of these conditions are caused by bad diet and obesity. And its clear that the Western world is getting less active and fatter annually. So I would expect these numbers to continue to increase. To blame it on vaccines is a bit of a shot in the dark with no data to back up the claim.
@Wibbs 'Now do I beleive mRNA vaccines will lead to horrible side effects in many down the line?'
I don't share your confidence.
Do you remember I said on the Vaccine Megathread I would be looking out for a rise in mysterious, unexplained heart attacks and sudden adult death syndrome?
These have exploded in the UK.
From my link above:
'Data from the UK Health Security Agency show there have been thousands more deaths than the five-year average in heart failure, heart disease, circulatory conditions and diabetes since the summer.'
Who says their deaths were listed as Covid Vaccine related? This is Ireland ffs lol. They both died from heart problems(that had never been a medical issue before) according to their family members, and according to their family members it was no time after receiving the vaccinations! Chances are, knowing Ireland and its wonderfully transparent Health Service, they will NEVER be listed as covid vaccine related deaths or ever even investigated as such. Just people who happened to die very shortly after receiving their second dose of the vaccine.
Thats what worries a lot of people. We have a Health Service that has proven time and again that it cannot be trusted and yet here we are, putting blind faith into these people. Only this time, its with our own lives. This time its not another child with catastrophic birth injuries due to medical negligence or swine flu vaccine related compensation being paid out to yet another affected person(and this list for this is endless not just these two examples). This time they are leaving the responsibility to take this vaccine down to each individual and therefore absolving the HSE of any responsibility if anything goes wrong after you take it. But if you dont take it......we take away your freedoms and rights. Call me a liar if you want, doesn't bother me in the slightest, if it makes things more comfortable for you, fire away.
Coercion of the finest order that doesn't sit well with me.
Edit. I've edited for transparency. I've had both vac's. I was horrifically ill after the second dose for almost 4 months. And I'm not the only one. This factor may be the biggest hurdle in the reluctance for the boosters. Thats my reason for now not taking any further doses.
The vaccine reduces transmission of delta.
That’s a fact.
You are 100% correct. We do not know the long term effects of the mRNA vaccines. It is likely there will be none worth mentioning but we do not know.
Absolutely. Everyone to their own. Some people get all wound up by other peoples decisions and what they choose to do which to me is bizarre.
Moderna were the golden boy of the new mRNA tech that promised to be a game changer in treatments for many conditions. They got into bed with Astrazenaca to build this new tech. The problem was that mRNA treatments caused too many horrible side effects and the vast majority of treatments didn't get past the animal testing stage because of that. They were also criticised for not publishing any peer reviewed papers on their technology(claiming commercial interests). Moderna went from a billion quid new kid on the block to struggling as investors walked away on the back of those trials. So they looked at what was the poor man of biotech, vaccines. The reason being that vaccines require smaller doses and fewer of them to get a useful effect, so side effects were less of a risk but until covid 19 it meant a much reduced return on investment.
Now do I beleive mRNA vaccines will lead to horrible side effects in many down the line? Not particularly, but I would be wary of getting mRNA boosters every few months and it's one reason why I chose the J&J viral vector vaccine(when there was a choice). Ah but they've been tested in the real world across many millions!. Yep they have, over a period of less than 18 months in the middle of a world emergency. By very definition one can't claim with a straight face to have long term results over the short term. To put it crudely; if I light a ten minute fuse on a bomb, everything is dandy at five minutes. If I light the ten minute fuses on a million bombs everything is still dandy at five minutes.
It is very one-sided imo.
Many people who are committed to official and mainstream scientific advice seemingly have no respect for personal judgement.
A few of my friends are saying the same. I will get the booster but I respect their decision. We've had good discussions about it.
'Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics showed that England and Wales registered 20,823 more deaths than the five-year average in the past 18 weeks. Only 11,531 deaths involved Covid.” (“Alarm grows as mortuaries fill with thousands of extra non-Covid deaths“, UK Telegraph)'
The EU Covid passes (on which ours is based) had the 6 months in them originally, but it was taken out to encourage vaccination.
50 years old, no issues taking boosters I believe 100% vaccination is our only way out of this. It'll never happen though about 5 - 10% of people didn't bother getting vaxxed first time around and high proportion will not bother getting the booster. This will keep this going much longer than it needs to.
No matter what happens or whatever evidence is produced some people will never ever ever accept that we were wrong to go « all in » with the vaccine over the summer.
If ever the term « cope » could be summed up in one post, this is it.
There is an element of why aren't people like me in this. We all have our own ways of making decisions, for better or worse.
The virus may be new, but there are no lack of precedents for pandemics. We have those going back thousands of years and pretty much every tool we've used in this pandemic(quarantine, social distancing, isolating the sick, health passports, even innoculation and later vaccination) has been around since the 15th century. This version of the virus is new, but we've already had SARS and MERS from the same group of viruses that thankfully didn't go to a pandemic status. The "newness" of a virus is only really of note as far as building vaccines for it. In every other practical respect pretty much all of what we have to figure out is serious illness/fatality rates, transmission route and transmissability and do existing treatments work in the infected. If this had been a seasonal flu variant that went rogue the approaches would have been the same.
As for what we knew from early on, or what was pretty obvious and was commented upon even in this forum from remarkably early on; we saw in the case of the cruise ships affected early on that while it was clearly deadlier than a seasonal flu but it overwhelmingly affected those over 50, more like those over 60 and 70 and the already seriously chronically ill. We also saw that it hammered health services because of a lack of overflow capacity. Italy being the scary one there and we were tasked with "flattening the curve". However even though different countries hurried to build massive field hospitals(remember them?) to deal with this overflow, very few were actually needed. The other panic was around ventilators where even Elon Musk looking for attention as usual was promising truckloads of them. Turns out they weren't needed to nearly the degree we thought either. This was all pretty clear by the start of summer of 2020.
So what will happen next? More concern, even panic over a winter climb in cases which will stress already stressed health services that were on the ragged edge before covid. More pushes for boosters in the face of that panic. Societies fighting back against restrictions because of pandemic fatigue over a virus that directly impacts few enough people, or the perception of that. Better vaccines that won't require nearly as many boosters if any in trials now being rolled out in 22.
According to the UK's Office of National Statistics there were 5 deaths in the UK (up to August) in which a COVID vaccination was the underlying cause of the death. There were 4 other deaths in which the vaccine was a contributing factor.
And yet here we have KittenSmittens on Boards.ie telling us that they have met TWO people, within the last week, that know someone that died as a result of being vaccinated.
You are a liar @kittensmittens
why anyone wouldn't get the booster after getting the first jabs is beyond me. scientists aren't out to get you, or fool you and yes there is an element of the unknown here, this virus is only two years old, it takes time to get the vaccine optimal. listen to the scientists or we might as well pack up as a species and fade into extinction.
In other words nobody has presented to you. You've made your decision and that's fine. People don't just makes decisions based on data and you have to leave them to it. There are many on this thread who are happy to take a booster and quite a few who won't. Neither has to justify themselves to the other. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific but neither is it completely untrue. There certainly is already a sense that the booster programme will not get anywhere as high a level as the original total.
Opinions, yes, Facts, no. There are not alternative facts. Data are just recordings of observations, from which we derive facts and hopefully make an informed decision. The poster in question routinely posts sh1te on the politics threads, so I don't value his/her opinions as they're not derived from intelligent reasoning, just some sick desire to wind people up.
Chatting with people to decide is a way of gathering opinions, is all. I can chat with plenty of people that say get the booster as early as possible. That in and of itself is only part of the process of making a decision. Much like reading discussion of whether to get a booster on a message board.
But, to this point, no one on this thread has presented any data as to why, when available, you shouldn't get a booster. Someone posted some nonsense about people dying from vaccines - well, they didn't die from boosters, and the likelihood of them dying, was infinitesimal. Yes, any injection can kill you, it's a shame but it's not as likely (by orders of magnitude) of Covid killing you or seriously disabling you for the rest of your life. Those are facts not opinions.
We all make decisions in different ways. People are entitled to their opinions and data and there is no point in getting wound up by what you may disagree with. If people want to get a booster they can, if they choose not to that's fine too.
Sounds like good experimental data you're basing your decision on. Chatting with people, like, the same ones every time? You took a man-on-the-street poll?
Or, like in the various other threads you show up in, you're just being a WUM?
People are placing too much blind faith in the effectiveness of the vaccines. For starters they were designed to act against the Alpha or Wuhan strain of Covid, not Delta.
Are people not even wondering why for example in October you had Co. Waterford with highest vaccination rate in the country but also highest rate of Covid at the time.
I know people have been affected badly by Covid-19, families friends people we care for, but this vaccine has failed, numerous studies peer reviewed medical journal attest to this. Natural immunity in the population is what's preventing high number surges in what is now almost 2 years into pandemic. Look back over the years previous to Covid our hospitals have always been in dire straits this time of year, if not worse.
Also our own medical experts have all but admitted the vaccines don't work, check Gillian de Gascun latest comment. I know people really bought into the vaccine being the way out, myself included, and it is hard to accept and believe that they are not the solution, but we aren't going anywhere if we keep believing that these current vaccines are goin to protect us and end all of this.
In fact they are causing more harm to public health and society than good, in time history will reflect this.
Numbers please? Define 'reasonably low.' Or, use a more accurate term, like, 'infinitesimal'
From chatting with people the last few weeks i'll be sticking with my we'll never have this high a number of fully vaccinated people again prediction. Most under 50's won't be bothering with it.
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