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Something needs to be done about the conspiracy theories forum

[Deleted User]

Either revert the charter to what it was before it was changed by Overheal a couple of years ago or close it down..

Every single thread just descends into the same 5 posters sneering at anyone wanting to discuss the topic or practically shouting questions repeatedly at people..

Apparently the charter was changed with no consultation a couple of years ago?..

It seems like only certain opinions are allowed..

The same thing happens in CA to an extent, but at this stage you might as well close the CT forum down..

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banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909169#Comment_117909169

I don't give a fúck what a posters position is and you are assuming I do.

What I do care about is honest debate and transparent discussion. If I make a claim, I'll support it with available evidence and lay out my thinking.

It's a standard in debate that one opens their position with same.

If an OP doesn't or can't? The should be called out on it and their hypothesis afforded zero credibility until they do.

It's not that hard to present a cogent argument, with the circumstances and thinking laid out, to develop an actual theory.

Much of what's wrong with the CT forum isn't people asking questions or rubbishing claims. It's the lack of theory and the preponderance of ill-thought hypothesis.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909169#Comment_117909169

I think you don't want a discussion you want yes men.

You can get that by using the forum "ignore" function to ignore all the people you disagree with.

Beasty

A very simple instruction to everyone - remain civil. You can get your point over without attacking other users

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909080#Comment_117909080

I may do that but the threads will look a bit odd if say there are seven posters with three discussing a topic and four others trying to interview them, being ignored and then claiming that they 'won the debate' (what debate?)

[Deleted User]

Still waiting for some one to answer the questions I asked:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908596#Comment_117908596

Or a comment on the idea proposed by nullzero and sydthebeat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907311#Comment_117907311

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117908726#Comment_117908726

Also out of curiousity since Markus popped in:

Most recently in a thread he fabricated an image and claimed it was a real one he found on google. This was only exposed by people asking him where the image came from.

How do people propose dealing with something like this if we aren't allowed to ask questions?

Should we have just pretended that the image was real? Should this kind of behaviour be allowed because it supports the conspiracy theory?

joeyboy11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907338#Comment_117907338

Im just catching this thread. Great post.

couldn’t have said it better myself

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909830#Comment_117909830

That actually what a lot of threads are.

You can try it and if you don't like it, un-ignore them.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117907289#Comment_117907289

How is that a conspiracy theory?

In any case you'd think a topic titled "Conspiracy Theories" would be understood to have some pretty wild stuff being said but also being discussed in a less skeptical way.

I think I could enjoy a conversation about the government knowing all about aliens and covering it up even if ultimately I think it's a load of nonsense.

I'd enjoy it a lot less if every five minutes some smug know-it-all type is making demands for evidence.

The hint is there in the word "theory".

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909929#Comment_117909929

Its not really though, for example...

If a random Jew in 1930s Germany was getting very nervous about how things were shaping up, observing "This Hitler guy has it in for us Jews, I'm telling you!" these lads would want a handwritten memo from Hitler with detailed instructions and even then would say "it's not proof he will kill the Jews, just that he's entertaining the possibility, You'd want to be a lunatic to think it would ever get that far"

Doesn't make a lot of sense, since there was long of evidence of persecution and even official policy.

"... From August to October 1819, pogroms that came to be known as the Hep-Hep Riots took place throughout Germany. During this time, many German states stripped Jews of their civil rights. As a result, many German Jews began to emigrate.....

..In January 1933, some 522,000 Jews lived in Germany. After the Nazis took power and implemented their antisemitic ideology and policies, the Jewish community was increasingly persecuted. About 60% (numbering around 304,000) emigrated during the first six years of the Nazi dictatorship. In 1933, persecution of the Jews became an official Nazi policy. In 1935 and 1936, the pace of antisemitic persecution increased. In 1936, Jews were banned from all professional jobs, effectively preventing them from participating in education, politics, higher education and industry. The Schutzstaffel (SS) ordered what became during the night of November 9–10, 1938, known as the Night of Broken Glass (Kristallnacht). The storefronts of Jewish shops and offices were smashed and vandalized, and many synagogues were destroyed by fire...."

Usually for a good conspiracy you have a lot of circumstantial evidence. That's what makes it plausible.

A conspiracy theory has no such basis... A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy

"....A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation,[2][3] when other explanations are more probable.[4][5] The term has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence.[6] A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy with specific characteristics, such as an opposition to the mainstream consensus among those people (such as scientists or historians) who are qualified to evaluate its accuracy.[7][8]... ...Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth,[6][9] whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proven or disproven.[10][11]...

Wiki etc.

I think the lines are getting blurred between a conspiracy theory and conspiracy. I think people think they are talking about a conspiracy theory, but are in fact talking about conspiracies, some of which can be very negative, even harmful. They are trying to defend a conspiracy with circular reasoning which won't work if there's a wealth of evidence.

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909178#Comment_117909178

To be fair, "The Space Program Is Fake" is exactly the content I would expect to see in a Conspiracy Theory forum.

What I would also expect to see though is a bit more "playing along" with the theory than an outright attempt to derail and dismiss as quickly as possible.

Sure, if I saw "The Moon Landing Was Fake" or "The Earth Is Flat" on a News or Current Affairs board then I would expect to see the OP ridiculed, badgered for proof and see the thread chopped.

I think with a Conspiracy Theory board you want to encourage people to sort of take things a bit less seriously and not have a small group who just try to ruin every thread.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909961#Comment_117909961

But why does asking people to explain their theory more or asking why they believe something "ruin" the thread?

Here's the thread about how all space flight is fake: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058161764/we-landed-on-mars-again-mod-note-post-1/p1

Could you point out some examples of where skeptics ask unfair or off topic questions?

Could you comment on the behaviour of the people proposing the theory also? Was that acceptable?

People keep saying conspiracy theorists are "badgered for proof" or they are being asked unfair or off topic questions.

I'm saying this isn't the case.

At the same time, no one complaining seems all that concerned about the behaviors of some conspiracy theorists that absolutely do kill discussion.

Here's a perfect example:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116894087#Comment_116894087

Here we have a conspiracy theorist listing a bunch of questions and stating:

I will not discuss any topic with you unless you sufficiently answer, not one, not two, but all of the above questions to a level that I am satisfied with.

Is this acceptable?

Then I did answer all of those questions directly, clearly and concisely with references and evidence. I did so with every follow up question he demanded.

How many questions did I, the skeptic that everyone says "badgers people", ask? One. That question wasn't a demand for proof or even evidence. It was asking him to further explain his conspiracy theory. A question we still have not actually seen an answer to.

Is this acceptable?

[Deleted User]

Given the content of the forum and the over spill into other forums/threads I'd suggest that the site functionality be updated so that every thread that is started in the C.T. forum has a sticky to various websites for mental health services on each new page.

Fighting Tao

A lot of this thread reads like “I have a personal dislike for King Mob because he asks me questions I don’t like and it puts me out of me comfort zone”.

I don’t understand why people wouldn’t answer questions requesting them to explain their conspiracy theory unless they are built on water and the person proposing it knows it.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909830#Comment_117909830

Not that bad actually. Not only that you will be spared of vague questions and evidence demands, you will actually not see their "won the debate" claim.

It works for me just fine.

Some people would never stop, being there become their own obsession or fetish, they use CT forum as their own echo chamber... Best thing is to ignore them - do not feed the troll.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117909961#Comment_117909961

Indeed, on the surface some of these are the "harmless silly conspiracies", but underneath, these individuals are frequently anti-science and you often find them pushing anti-vaccination views, Covid denial, etc, which end up dominating the forum.

It goes without saying that no one's views are so holy they need to be protected from basic discussion, and given the current circumstances, the last thing anyone needs is medical disinformation being sheltered on the forum.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911627#Comment_117911627

I didn’t know I was famous. Nor do I recall interacting with you. However, interaction is probably misleading if you want to post and not discuss what you say. If you want a safe space then use Twitter and only allow replies from no-one!

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911646#Comment_117911646

Again, making false claims about what we want and don't want. All we are looking for here is to have the charter restored and enforced and not have every single thread created in the forum spammed to death by people who clearly hate conspiracy theories and theorists.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911673#Comment_117911673

Do you know what a forum is? It’s for discussion. Therefore people ask questions. What it’s wrong with that?

Plus stop making up crap. Re-read the post you quoted. I did not make any false claims.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911627#Comment_117911627

Quote: There isn't a single poster in the conspiracy forum who isn't open to questions, valid criticisms and lively debate

You must be joking. That is exactly what many of the posters in there are not open to, and exactly what they are hoping to get rid of through this thread.

What these posters want is a place where they can spout any nonsense they like and not be challenged on any of it, not have any posters asking pesky questions about evidence or reasons.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911673#Comment_117911673

Boo hoo hoo, give me my safe space so I can post any crap I want without being held to account for my claims.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911673#Comment_117911673

A charter that allows unfounded and unchallenged claims isn't fit for purpose.

This is a discussion site, you seem to be vehemently opposed to needing take the basic formulatory step in a discussion of presenting a basis for any theory and then having the hypothesis presented protected from challenge or attack.

There are no sacred cows. If someone proposes a theory it is incumbent upon them to lay out their support for it. Be it circumstantial, inference or any other form. Saying "9/11 was an inside job" isn't a theory, it's an opinion and not even worthy of response other than to ask for evidence.

Saying '9/11 was an inside job"and presenting the evidence that led you that opinion, be it the Hulsey report, the 9/11 report and cherry picking parts to build a narrative or any other amalgamation of evidence is at least a basis for discussion, exchange and challenge for supporters and Skeptics.

Your aim seems to be an arena where no claim is challenged and the discussion of hypothesis can circle amongst like minded people?

That's not how an open discussion works. Nor is it remotely akin to free speech. Free speech is the right to challenge, to oppose and to discuss.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911686#Comment_117911686

You claimed that we want a "safe space" which is untrue and just more of the gas lighting. Why are you even here? If you like the forum just the way it is then why are you posting in the feedback thread?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911758#Comment_117911758

You don’t want questions. That is basically a safe space online. So what I posted is accurate.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911745#Comment_117911745

You need to learn what a theory is. Until then, any discussion with you is a futile effort.

You are basically saying you disagree with the charter and think the forum should follow your terms. And to reiterate for the thousanth time - nobody is looking for a safe space, nobody is refusing to answer questions, nobody refuses to have their views challenged. The point of this feedback thread is to put a stop to the flash mob/spam and bully tactics used by a small group of posters in the forum.

That is all we ask.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911758#Comment_117911758

Based on your and the other supporting posters opinions. Fighting Tao has made a perfectly valid summation of what you appear to want.

NullZero has recognised the issue and proposed a template. Why not try that for a while and see how it goes?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911777#Comment_117911777

Actually you do.

A theory is presented with supporting evidence and an outline of the process that led to its creation.

You are proposing a Conspiracy Hypothesis forum, where one can make a claim, throw out an idea and discuss how it may happen. That's very different to a theory.

Perhaps request a new forum, create a charter and discuss those hypothesis. However anyone presenting a theory? Is at least expected to have the requirements in paragraph 1 sorted.

[Deleted User]

Nah, seeing as even the thread in the help desk descends into the same thing I've reached the conclusion it's probably beyond repair, and should be closed down..

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911806#Comment_117911806

Why? Discussion should stop because it doesn't result in the answers or format you'd prefer?

Childish in the extreme.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911806#Comment_117911806

So you do t want to discuss anything at all? Why have an account on Boards then?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117911823#Comment_117911823

I have a masochistic streak..