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There will be a rise in incel related terror attacks

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭ Yeah_Right


    Thanks. I appreciate the effort. I like your idea about being better than you were yesterday. I've recently started swimming again. I used to swim competitively a million years ago and I've been frustrated at how crap I now am. I think I will follow your advice and add another couple of lengths each day. Cheers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ nj27


    Or become deadly terrorists, wicked pederasts. Dangerous men!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,170 ✭✭✭ taxAHcruel


    Yeah the analogy I usually use is to nonsense diets like "Cayenne Pepper". Those fad diets are usually several layers of absolute nonsense built around a core of clearly sensible common sense things like eating unprocessed freshly cooked food and drinking water and so forth. PUA is a mess of manipulative and/or toxic tripe (like "negging" for example) built around a core of basic common sense like some of the things you describe above. And in fact posture was one of the very things I worked on with the guy I mentioned. The moment he entered into any interaction with a potential he shifted into this crossed armed head down leading forward posture that was a mixture of pre-emptive defeat and emotional closed off walls of self protection.

    I dabble in books and the world of NLP myself actually - but usually more in the area of a supporting role for the close up magic and mentalism magic and other stuff stuff I do as a hobby. So probably in the more manipulative end of that sphere too a bit - though for entertainment more than exploitation.

    Hah adding a whole length per day sounds like a lot to me but I have never been a great swimmer myself. Competent would probably be the word I would use for my swimming abilities. I am more in the area of running and combat training and martial arts movements or dance forms myself. I probably should be better at swimming. Strength and flexibility and endurance are not an issue for me which are all good for swimming too right? I guess I simply do not enjoy it all that much so I am not applied enough to get particularly good at it in terms of building up speed and/or distance.

    I tend to gravitate towards forms of exercise/movement that is varied - and get turned off anything that I find too monotonous or repetitive. I could probably run a marathon happily along streets and forest paths. If I was on a running machine in a gym I would give up after 3km.

    But whatever you are into - it is worth trying the "incremental method" as I call it. Doesn't work for everyone. Nothing ever does. But you can build up to great things slowly for sure if it works for you. And as I said before - setting smaller attainable goals is fulfilling in a way that setting sudden lofty goals and missing them is not. And I wonder how many people who give up do so not because they can not achieve what they want - but because the pleasure of setting and hitting goals was denied them by doing too much too soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Sure. Not likely, but possible I suppose.

    We've had loads of bachelors in Ireland for hundreds of years and I can't think of many who turned to incel type terrorism, can you?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 58,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    True, though in some way the game has changed. The interwebs and our hoovering up of US culture in too many things being two. Take that culture; in 1950's America there were far more guns and much more easy access to same and a fair few societal problems all societies are err too, with a few extra in the US, yet school shootings were not even close to a thing. Outside of criminal enterprises shooting sprees in general were vanishingly rare. Now thank whatever god we believe or don't believe in Irish society is not nearly as fractured on the edges as US society has become and like you I can't see too many incel type nutters kicking off here, but it would be slightly more of a concern than say 20 or 30 years ago. Though what has also increased and again much of it is an import is the fear mongering in media, social and traditional.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,080 ✭✭✭✭ Buttonftw


    One thing I've noticed that doesn't help though is the characterisation of anyone who doesn't toe the line perfectly as an incel sure as **** ain't going to help. If someone suggests that maybe women have general preferences they're told that they don't and that they're a piece of **** who needs to sort their life out. While also, funnily enough, seeming to downplay women's agency.

    If I suggest, for example, that the main reason I don't do well in online dating is because I'm fat I'm told that's not it and that if I don't change my mind then I'm bitter and hate women. Despite the fact that I haven't even mentioned women. People are entitled to preferences and more power to them. Or maybe I'm "externalising" the issue, and blaming everyone else. That's another great one, blame. Why people feel the need to ascribe that to everything.

    I'd get single digit matches over the course of a year on Tinder despite swiping right without looking. Yet if I suggest that my appearance was the main thing causing the low success rate to a female friend they'd instantly jump down my throat.

    And yeah, I'll probably get the "Oh well you took the time to type all that, you must be angry/bitter/raging" BS reply for this post. I'm too far past caring about it to get angry. I have my dog, my new car, live in a house on my own, don't drink, don't have a drug or gambling problem but little of that seems to matter to the ladies. It's all that matters to me though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,939 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Ahh well.. I can sympathise with Incels somewhat when it comes to experiences with women (in general) because there are heaps of double standards in society, which is exasperated by the Internet... but also the feminist or "rights" movements over the last few decades. There's a lot of emphasis placed on what men (as a gender) do, and their responsibilities in society. Gender stereotypes are very much accepted when applied to men, but it's horrible to reinforce them for women.

    I'm a member of a few mailing lists which friends asked to join. Mostly these would be lists similar to the scope of the MTGOW category, and it's horrifying the range of abuse and mistreatment many guys have experienced both from women, but also from society as result of that experience. Naturally, a grain of salt is needed with such stories, but even so, it's pretty appalling how often these negative experiences seem to crop up. There's a lot of inequalities in many western societies, although the US really takes the biscuit with this one... and it's getting worse all the time.

    I'd say the problem with incels and such, is that when men get angry, they get aggressive. When women get angry, they, typically, just complain more.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ nj27


    I am dipping into an idea for a screenplay, a super obese incel who kills famous chicks. The crazy turnaround dip in or out moment is he's actually a genius who went to MIT for theoretical physics or some kind of weird gay number stuff like that. And his mom is totally in on the whole gig, he shoots up naked in her house and she's chill with that plus she covers for him with the police. That's about all I have so far, apart from an opening scene where a famous chick turns on the lights in her kitchen and he's there outside much akin to the killer in the movie the strangers. Think of it like the open scene of scream but with a crazy super obese incel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,861 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I think the crazy turnaround needs improvement - a lot of incels probbaly have that kind of background. Make him a hippie artist or something - THAT would be a twist...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭ Carfacemandog




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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's a big, big difference between an Incel and someone who just is perpetually single. I think this thread is going down the route of throwing all bachelors into the Incel category and that's grossly unfair.

    There are people who just don't make those connections for all sorts of reasons from never finding the right person, to being quite asexual and having low sex drives and all sorts of reasons.

    Some people are very happy being single and don't necessarily have a desire to partnered up all the time. They can often be extremely balanced and not at all weird. They don't all suddenly turn into Incels, or somehow become dangerous.

    Many are just content to be single.

    This Incel thing is, from what I can see, is another one of these online bubbles of narcissism, entitlement and a victim narrative. They're just a group of very bitter individuals who've found a label and a community to amplify and support their bitterness and seem to turn that into very nasty stuff aimed at women or wider society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,939 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Pretty much. He was a positive force when he first arrived on the scene, but now he's based his whole life around his Internet/Public persona, and he's got too much skin in the game to avoid dabbling too much and enabling the pathetic attitudes that makes him "needed". TBH I'd be careful about anything that comes from psychology now, since it's a major industry that profits too much from the suffering of others, and has too many connections with the pharma companies.

    I've listened to JP recently and it's all meh. Some obvious sensible ideas but he sold out.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,939 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    There's a big, big difference between an Incel and someone who just is perpetually single. I think this thread is going down the route of throwing all bachelors into the Incel category and that's grossly unfair.

    How so? I'm a Bachelor in my mid 40s, and I love my lifestyle. Didn't get the impression you express above about the thread. There are real problems to dating culture in modern society though, and the double standards that exist between the genders. But being a bachelor with the right mindset is a lot of fun, and is rather healthy.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are some expressing that opinion further back up the thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,855 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    I get what you mean about lumping all the bachelors into the incel group. I don't do that myself, but imagine some people do it.

    But you can see he difference between someone who is happy on his own as a single bloke, and someone whose a bit bitter and twisted at women or the system or biology whatever. Some of them come across as just unpleasant people. The kind of people you wouldn't want to be around. They complain about their height or being fat or unattractive or whatever else, but I think they totally underestimate the importance of being fun and interesting to be around and not having a general attitude that stinks to high heaven.

    They complain about the system and external things, but rarely talk about the things that are totally within their control like being a bit of craic.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think though it’s just part of a whole raft of groups online that seem to spend their time being angry.

    Also there’s a thread rolling through some very toxic bubbles that’s very much about lashing out at the world because of a perceived slight and it just amplifies and echoes in those groups.

    You’re seeing that across a lot of radicalised groups and individuals online. It’s the common denominator of many of those phenomena.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    I remember reading an anthropology book years ago which posited that the IRA drew in some people who might otherwise have been serial killers acting alone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,939 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Ahh ok. A few posters... not the general attitude of the thread then.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



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